Differences between Bedford OYC and OYD

[Lynn Eades]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Hi Matt,

that service would seem to be the logical recipient.

Mike

Mike, Thoughts loaded with scepticism flow freely in my head

[mlombard]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Mike, Thoughts loaded with scepticism flow freely in my head

Hi Lynn your right, there is apparently some archival material in Canberra on the refugee cargo that Australian authorities initially impounded then disposed of, via a committee set up to deal with wartime shipping. It would seem that in the days and weeks following the fall of Singapore, ships were turning up all over Australia, but mainly Fremantle not only with human cargo, but their holds still full of war materials, which needed to be offloaded, and I assume replaced with food stuffs, before being sent back to, mainly the UK. So given the situation the authorities found themselves in and the desperate need for war materials in Australia, they requisitioned them and then passed them out to the various services such as the RAN and RAAF. It is known that the MV Empire Star arrived at Singapore with RAF ground units but was unable to unload fully, and by this stage Singapore was the only Allied position with reports that it's streets were awash with vehicles used in the retreat from Malaya, so possibly the priority would have been other cargo, food and ammo unloaded first. There is a photo on the net of the MV Empire Star sailing to Batavia or Australia still with trucks as deck cargo. Yes I agree that there is a degree of threading the story together, but it is pretty certain this Bedford OY is a mid 1941 production as it lacks certain features of the later OY's such as roof hatch etc, but has other features which indicate it is not early production either such as hubs for split rims on the front and the handbrake mechanism is not the early one. It all interesting stuff this.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by mlombard

Yes I agree that there is a degree of threading the story together, but it is pretty certain this Bedford OY is a mid 1941 production as it lacks certain features of the later OY's such as roof hatch etc, but has other features which indicate it is not early production either such as hubs for split rims on the front and the handbrake mechanism is not the early one. It all interesting stuff this.

Hi Matt,
I think you will find that roof hatch, or cupola was not added until late 1943. Does it have sling plates on the wheel hubs? The engine number that Rick C quoted sounds like a 43/44 build, also noted it appears to be painted black, in the event that it had never been overhauled this could be the original factory finish.

[Mike Cecil]

That late production would be interesting, Richard, and would throw a whole different perspective into the deliberations.

There are a couple of OY vehicles on my list with chassis numbers in the OY76XXX range which were undoubtedly acquired during the war (not post-war), but there are also are a bunch of OYD in the OY50XXX range that are certainly earlier acquisitions. Where does OY50XXX come in the production chronology? Might not be relevant to Matt's truck, but interesting from the perspective of the 'Empire Star' and possible refugee cargo.

Mike

[mlombard]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

That late production would be interesting, Richard, and would throw a whole different perspective into the deliberations.

There are a couple of OY vehicles on my list with chassis numbers in the OY76XXX range which were undoubtedly acquired during the war (not post-war), but there are also are a bunch of OYD in the OY50XXX range that are certainly earlier acquisitions. Where does OY50XXX come in the production chronology? Might not be relevant to Matt's truck, but interesting from the perspective of the 'Empire Star' and possible refugee cargo.

Mike

Hi Mike what you have said is interesting in light of what Richard wrote later OY76XXX would appear to be 1943 production whilst OY50XXX would appear to be around 1942, and these would still be too late for refugee cargo, I think. I'm trying to source a copy of Bart's book on Bedfords which I assume is the one Richard is quoting from. I know some oddball vehicles such a Morris 15cwt came back with the AIF from the Middle East, but after that I assume all war material came from the USA or Canada, not really the UK, and half a dozen or so OY's would seem odd to ship here unless they had something special mounted on them. However if these OY's (both OY50XXX) and OY76XXX) were WWII veteran brought out for use a Maralinga and Woomera then yes that makes sense. Maybe I should run a gigarcounter over the truck!

[Mike Cecil]

No, Matt - the OY's I've quoted were all received in Australia during the war, so are not later Brit vehicles brought over for the Maralinga tests, and besides, the Maralinga vehicles were not migrated to the Australian register as far as I can tell.

Mike

[mlombard]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

No, Matt - the OY's I've quoted were all received in Australia during the war, so are not later Brit vehicles brought over for the Maralinga tests, and besides, the Maralinga vehicles were not migrated to the Australian register as far as I can tell.

Mike

oh ok, was Australia still receiving much British war material in the 1942-43 period, I thought most of it was American / Canadian sourced by then.

This is a good thread irrespective of any outcome for me I'd like to see if we tease out an answer to the Bedford OY's in Australia.

[mlombard]

Originally Posted by Richard Farrant

Hi Matt,
I think you will find that roof hatch, or cupola was not added until late 1943. Does it have sling plates on the wheel hubs? The engine number that Rick C quoted sounds like a 43/44 build, also noted it appears to be painted black, in the event that it had never been overhauled this could be the original factory finish.

Hi Richard, no there are no sling plates on the front hubs. Not sure about the engine, but think that Rick Cove would be the man to ask,

[mlombard]

Hi here's some additional information I got from a chap in the UK, called Peter Mason who has a OYD and seems to know a thing or two about OY's

Early Bedford OY's
Civilian type front hubs with thin rims and tyres
Different Bush Bar
Cast Hand Brake lever
Different dash
Different instruments
Bellows type air cleaner

Late Bedford OY's
Roof Ring
Lifting Rings on Hubs

He quoted chassis no.'s 59680 to 77820 were 1941 production and this would put mine if it was chassis no. 73076 as mid to late 1941, but remember this is only going off the engine no. which rick has given, so the question is did chassis and engine no's line up, this may or may not be the case. I guess the key is to know the chassis no which I'll have another look for, and then to know the production sequence.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by mlombard

Hi here's some additional information I got from a chap in the UK, called Peter Mason who has a OYD and seems to know a thing or two about OY's

Early Bedford OY's
Civilian type front hubs with thin rims and tyres
Different Bush Bar
Cast Hand Brake lever
Different dash
Different instruments
Bellows type air cleaner

Late Bedford OY's
Roof Ring
Lifting Rings on Hubs

He quoted chassis no.'s 59680 to 77820 were 1941 production and this would put mine if it was chassis no. 73076 as mid to late 1941, but remember this is only going off the engine no. which rick has given, so the question is did chassis and engine no's line up, this may or may not be the case. I guess the key is to know the chassis no which I'll have another look for, and then to know the production sequence.

Hi Matt,
Not quite as cut and dried as all that. There would be very few OY Bedfords around with the civilian type wheels with twins on rear. Most were lost in France and Dunkirk in 1940. The bellows air cleaner could be found on later OY's. The year of your chassis number, assuming 73076 is correct would be 1943 as production that year was chassis numbers 68618 to 79852 (according to Bart V and he was a stickler for accuracy of facts). The cab cupola was introduced at chassis no. 78696 and another feature worth checking is to see if the top half of the cab was removable, as this feature came in to production with Chassis no. 43522.
On the dashboard, if you have a large round lighting and ignition switch in between speedo and combined gauge, then that feature came in on ch. no. 43522 (1941), this carried through to end of production.

regards, Richard

[mlombard]

Originally Posted by Richard Farrant

Hi Matt,
Not quite as cut and dried as all that. There would be very few OY Bedfords around with the civilian type wheels with twins on rear. Most were lost in France and Dunkirk in 1940. The bellows air cleaner could be found on later OY's. The year of your chassis number, assuming 73076 is correct would be 1943 as production that year was chassis numbers 68618 to 79852 (according to Bart V and he was a stickler for accuracy of facts). The cab cupola was introduced at chassis no. 78696 and another feature worth checking is to see if the top half of the cab was removable, as this feature came in to production with Chassis no. 43522.
On the dashboard, if you have a large round lighting and ignition switch in between speedo and combined gauge, then that feature came in on ch. no. 43522 (1941), this carried through to end of production.

regards, Richard

Thank you very much Richard,, this is exactly the detail I'm looking for, the more I can find out the closer I can narrow down the year of manufacture, and whether it is a refugee from Malaya or a vehicle brought in later.

[mlombard]

Originally Posted by Richard Farrant

Hi Matt,
Not quite as cut and dried as all that. There would be very few OY Bedfords around with the civilian type wheels with twins on rear. Most were lost in France and Dunkirk in 1940. The bellows air cleaner could be found on later OY's. The year of your chassis number, assuming 73076 is correct would be 1943 as production that year was chassis numbers 68618 to 79852 (according to Bart V and he was a stickler for accuracy of facts). The cab cupola was introduced at chassis no. 78696 and another feature worth checking is to see if the top half of the cab was removable, as this feature came in to production with Chassis no. 43522.
On the dashboard, if you have a large round lighting and ignition switch in between speedo and combined gauge, then that feature came in on ch. no. 43522 (1941), this carried through to end of production.

regards, Richard

Hi Richard Now I'm steaming along having worked out how to upload photos, please find some photos to help answer this question

[mlombard]

Originally Posted by Richard Farrant

Hi Matt,
I think you will find that roof hatch, or cupola was not added until late 1943. Does it have sling plates on the wheel hubs? The engine number that Rick C quoted sounds like a 43/44 build, also noted it appears to be painted black, in the event that it had never been overhauled this could be the original factory finish.

Now I know how to load a photo here's the hub.