AWM acquisition?

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

These are all the photos I have. Taken over a couple of years, either on ANZAC day or at the MJCQ event at Canungra, QLD.

Fabulous pics Tony, thanks for posting. I've saved them to file where I can drool over them at leisure!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

This is one of the earliest FAT's I can find, a Guy Quad Ant:

Guy%20Quad-Ant%204%20x%204%20Artillery%20Tractor.jpg

[Keith Webb]

Nobody would believe you if you turned up in something looking like that!

But it's genuine and looks pretty interesting.

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

This is one of the earliest FAT's I can find, a Guy Quad Ant:

Attachment 79791

[Lynn Eades]

I think we should call it a Dung Beetle?(I think there's already a Scarab?)

I wonder if the nick name sticks?????

Hanno, how can it be a FAT? It's a GAQ (that's never going to go viral)

[Tony Mathers]

This should answer a few questions.

Quads.jpg

Reference to the design shape is contained in a Mechanisation Board minute featured in Ventham and Fletcher’s Moving the guns : the mechanisation of the Royal Artillery, 1854-1939, p81. shown above.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Tony Mathers

This should answer a few questions.

Attachment 79801

Reference to the design shape is contained in a Mechanisation Board minute featured in Ventham and Fletcher’s Moving the guns : the mechanisation of the Royal Artillery, 1854-1939, p81. shown above.

I would suggest that the anti-gas feature was simply making the body all metal, as opposed to it's "beetle" shape. In the end, the vast majority of CMPs were of all metal construction.

I note the author also has the evolution of the spare tire and platform mounted on the back in their reversed order of occurrence. Mounting the tires onto the back came later, after the run-flat tires were replaced with regular tires to conserve rubber. I think you would need all six men to get a 20" runflat up onto that back, and I'm not sure the weight would have been good for the truck nor the operators having to lift it.

Perhaps this was the wrong book to quote for the museum's interpretive panel.

[Lynn Eades]

Your first para. Rob, is how I read it as well. Tin body for anti gas as opposed to wood / canvas.

[Mike Cecil]

Hi Tony,

Interesting discussion, Tony. Your post containing MECH 314 is a few back now, so the following refers to that post in particular.

MECH 314 has two sections that I believe are relevant to the present discussion and your post in particular: the section titled 'AIF Vehicles Returned from overseas' and 'Vehicles from Refugee Ships'.

You stated that: "Cab 12 FATs arrived in numbers on 6th and 7th Div convoys during early-mid '42. As brand new vehicles taken on charge in Alexandria immediately prior to sailing, they arrived as "types which have not previously been operated by A.I.F. Units", thus falling under the heading "Vehicles from Refugee Ships."

I cannot agree with your deductions for three main reasons.

Firstly, vehicles brought to Australia with the AIF on the 'Stepsister' series of convoys and independent voyages I believe fall under the heading 'AIF Vehicles returned from overseas', wherein the last paragraph specifically states that 'Certain vehicles have been brought to Australia bearing War Office numbers. These [ ie the registration number] are to be retained as the Army Vehicle number. No AMF or AIF numbers will be allotted to these vehicles.' So if tractors (new or used, MECH314 makes no distinction) were brought to Australia on the Stepsister transports, these would have retained their WO number, and not been assigned an AMF or AIF number.

Secondly, the heading 'Vehicles from Refugee Ships' refers to shipping being 'Refugee': the ships sailing under the umbrella of the Stepsister series were certainly not 'refugee' within the broadest definition of the term, but ships assigned to particular tasking, ie transport the AIF pers and stores to assigned ports, mostly in Australia. Whereas in terms of refugee ships, there were large numbers on independent voyages that were not part of the Stepsister series, and which were diverted mid-voyage to Australian ports rather than them continuing to their original ports of destination. These were thus classified as 'refugee ships'. The cargoes landed from 'refugee ships' and requisitioned by Australian authorities were invariably referred to as 'refugee cargo'. These ranged from raw materials to tanks and amounted to tens of thousands of tons (I have several refugee cargo lists: fascinating range of items listed). The Div of Import Procurement listed over 83 different vessels from which cargoes were requisitioned during the first four months of 1942. The list is headed 'List of Refugee Vessels diverted to Australia'.

Thirdly, the wheeled vehicles landed in Australia from refugee ships were assigned numbers within the 50201 to 51000 block, hence we see arrivals such as Albion and Bedford workshops, Austin K2 Ambulances, and so on, all being assigned numbers within that block. The 'Quad' tractors, which includes the one the AWM has acquired, also fall within that block.

Seems to me we are dealing with a tractor that was not originally intended to land in Australia, but did when the ship it was on was diverted to Australia, ie a refugee ship landing a refugee cargo. Hence its inclusion within the 'vehicles from refugee ships' number block, and the annotation 'refugee' adjacent to the entry (as with most entries within that number block).

Mike

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Tony Mathers

Reference to the design shape is contained in a Mechanisation Board minute featured in Ventham and Fletcher’s Moving the guns : the mechanisation of the Royal Artillery, 1854-1939, p81. shown above.

Thanks Tony for the scan of the book.

Originally Posted by rob love

I would suggest that the anti-gas feature was simply making the body all metal, as opposed to it's "beetle" shape. In the end, the vast majority of CMPs were of all metal construction.

I note the author also has the evolution of the spare tire and platform mounted on the back in their reversed order of occurrence. Mounting the tires onto the back came later, after the run-flat tires were replaced with regular tires to conserve rubber. I think you would need all six men to get a 20" runflat up onto that back, and I'm not sure the weight would have been good for the truck nor the operators having to lift it.

Perhaps this was the wrong book to quote for the museum's interpretive panel.

I concur with Rob's remarks above. Sorry to see the esteemed writers clearly missed the bat on this one!

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

I think we should call it a Dung Beetle?(I think there's already a Scarab?)

I wonder if the nick name sticks?????

Hanno, how can it be a FAT? It's a GAQ (that's never going to go viral)

The Guy was listed as Tractor 4x4 and built under Contract No. V3245 for 16 vehicles, they were listed as 'less winch' and 'with winch', so looks like they were probably trials vehicles as later on Guy was to supply the Quad Ant FAT which also had the 'beetleback' style body as the Morris Commercial, and it is from these that the CMP FAT's were spawned.

Lynn, you may not know, but when the WD were trialing the 15cwt 4x2 trucks in late Thirties, Commer was a contender along with Bedford, Morris, etc. and the name of the Commer ........ Beetle!

I think the name 'beetleback' goes back a long way when referring to the Morris Commercial C8 FAT, probably back to service days, much the same as the names for Scammell Pioneer ... Coffeepot and AEC Militant Mk1 ...... Knocker. Most FAT's were referred to as plain Quads over here and I can remember my father saying that in the Fifties, when we regularly saw demobbed ones working on erecting precast concrete barns around the country.

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Richard Farrant

Lynn, you may not know, but when the WD were trialing the 15cwt 4x2 trucks in late Thirties, Commer was a contender along with Bedford, Morris, etc. and the name of the Commer ........ Beetle

The trials were held after the Morris 15 cwt was already in production , the prototype Morris being built in 1934 . The other brands were on trial , not the Morris

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

The trials were held after the Morris 15 cwt was already in production , the prototype Morris being built in 1934 . The other brands were on trial , not the Morris

Thanks Mike,
I should have said Guy not Morris. Brain is too muddled at present with Corowa preparations.

cheers Richard

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

Nobody would believe you if you turned up in something looking like that!

But it's genuine and looks pretty interesting.

It all looks quite Heath-Robinsonesque, doesn't it?

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Hanno, how can it be a FAT? It's a GAQ (that's never going to go viral)

You mean GQA?

For other readers: FAT stands for Field Artillery Tractor, the name of the type of vehicle. Chevrolet built the CGT, Ford the FGT, etc., etc., all FAT's.

[Tim Bell]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

This is one of the earliest FAT's I can find, a Guy Quad Ant:

Attachment 79791

Have a manual for that somewhere.

[Mike K]

That Guy looks like a Kubelwagen on steroids .

Guy Ant, Lizard, Vixant .. maybe its a Superant !

[Tim Lovelock]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

This is one of the earliest FAT's I can find, a Guy Quad Ant:

Attachment 79791

Am I mistaken or are the body sides wood?

[Lynn Eades]

Yes Tim, I believe we are looking at wood. It was a commonly used material at that time in British vehicles.

[Tim Lovelock]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Yes Tim, I believe we are looking at wood. It was a commonly used material at that time in British vehicles.

Thanks, Lynn,