Operational safety at reenactments

[rob love]

Echo what Frank says. Trained ground guides. Also, 20+ tons of steel is not a play thing for a novice to drive, no matter how young and pretty she may be. I also don't let anyone climb on armour. Unlike a soft skin vehicle that has a little give, armour does not, and it will only be teeth coming out if the "climber" is lucky. I provide work platforms for the public to view the vehicles from higher, with suitable ropes to prevent climbing in.

[Jason Ginn]

This is a great topic with much good info already!

I can say for me the following points were key.

- 0 booze before or during vehicle ops

- full vehicle checks before daily ops. Inc. fire ext, comms, fuel leaks and levels, track or tire condition, battery hold down, brakes steering and lights. Gas fires in armoured boxes are really bad!

- functional comms for CC and Dvr.

- ground guide(s)!!!!! Not just anybody that can flap about like they are trying to fly, but a TRAINED person that uses the same signals that the driver and Cc are trained in.

- when a vehicle moves it has a ground guide and or commander. Anything in public spaces and for loading should have a GG at all times.

- never fuel in public spaces

- all crew should be trained on how to safely enter and exit the vehicle, particularly in an emergency.

- no matter who owns the vehicle the CC is in charge! The driver does make decisions unless there is a safety concern.

- driver and CC should have and understand each other's commands. Real emergency stop vs stop when you have a chance comes to mind.

- never reverse a arms vehicle without a guide.

- do not let public into vehicles without supervision. They flick switches fall out and bang into things. It's a fact!

-crew and passenger rule. if you are sitting in a vehicle stay sitting. Standing , stay standing. People get hurt moving around in a moving vehicle.

- don't let people sit on a vehicle. If they are in it they should have a seat.

Probably lots more but this is all I can think of now.

Hope this help.

[Edwin Wand]

Do you have a picture of the type of work platform you use. Its an interesting idea. Indiscriminate climbing on soft skins can be dangerous, especially for children whose parents are not with them or just don't think.

We never though of platforms but it might be an idea whose time has come; but falling off a viewing platform can be as equally bone breaking as falling off an armoured vehicle.

Good point about ground guides; people who think they can run a carrier with everyone safely sitting down even with a ground guide need to find another outlet for their interests. No Cdn unit would allow carrier codrivers to be seated when the carrier was in motion. After all, the co-driver is the vehicle commander. He may also be either the convoy commander or the signal relayer to the carriers behind.

[rob love]

Ed

I don't have a photo handy but I'll snap one tomorrow when I am at work. Basically they are steps with a platform on top and guard rails surrounding the upper platform with handrails for the stair portion. They are available from 3 feet to around 16 feet in height.

I managed to pick up 8 brand new platforms from the tax department in Winnipeg on a crown asset sale. They cost the government around $450 each, and cost me around $50 each. Previous to that I bought 3 from the Germans when they left Shilo for $10 each. Now there was a bargain.

Here is a shot of one from the internet. They are available commercially from places like Acklands.

[Robert Bergeron]

Gents,

My recent safety concern is with photographers. Either amateur or professionals.On a recent HMV parade during wich i was driving my Carrier, through the streets of my town on Remembrance Day , at least two of that kind threw themselves in front of me as i was riding at close to 20 MPH . People expect we can stop on a dime.

In one instance i caught the lower part of my pant leg on the something and had difficulty reaching the brake pedal down low below the sloping armour.

I was barely able to stop in time 5 feet from the guy. He tought it was funny and smiled, thinking i was showing off. He had his objective on my face so i started smiling for posterity . He almost got badly injured or killed and he did not even know it.

That taught me to think ahead just like when i see deer or moose on the highway's edge. Foot off the gas pedal and on to the brakes at ready . Breaks your convoy speed and distance between vehicles but a life is worth much more than uniformity.

I agree with the posters . Stand or sit but don't move around and yes , the CC in a Carrier should be standing and looking all around. Also, don't climb , i have a very nice stepladder i carry around to help you in and out one at a time.

I look forward seeing the agreed checklist that is coming out if this tread.

[Jim Burrill]

I think I am seeing this shake out into four (at least) areas
1) Vehicle and Crew safety
2) Display safety
3) Parade/road safety
4) Tactical (reenactment) safety.


I will sort through the posts so far and chunk them that way.

This is really a "Group-mind" process, So please voice your opinions, even if someone has already mentioned something. Good to see concurrance, as well as perhaps from a slightly different perspective.

Illustrations..... Not sure how to incorporate those - not for a check list, bit for a longer "booklet" format on practical safety for HMV's.

(booklet just to contain the topics, not as in a booklet to buy. Once I get to the .pdf stage, we can all copy and share.

Illustrations - any of on-scene accidents? Can blur faces. Some of the most attention getting safety messages during my Navy days were actual photos in the safety magazine called "Approach" (here is a link to archives of several Navy magazines - http://www.gjenvick.com/Military/Nav...#axzz3uRkeyldX

Any other pictures of accidents just waiting to happen, write ups of near misses, or AARs of ones that hit.

You can see where I am going with this.

Thanks to all who have responded so far!
Jim

[jdmcm]

An ex -tanker on another forum said it best "Tanks were designed to kill people...and they don't care who that might be".

It is always nice to participate in events so people can see the vehicles and appreciate their history, but recently I stopped participating in one public event because it has become incredibly dangerous. They insist on using a tank to crush cars for the crowd (not one of mine, another local guy). Now personally the whole idea of crushing cars with a tank for the public's amusement is not my cup of tea. These aren't monster trucks or demolition derby mobiles...these are historic military vehicles, veterans if you will. They are not toys for Bubba's amusement...I think once we reduce them to this then we lose sight of what they were designed for and we do let our guard down and begin to see them as recreational vehicles...which they are not. Anyway this event has grown bigger every year but the area allocated for the car crushing has grown smaller, and with a smaller area and bigger crowds, people are within feet, sometimes inches of a 40 ton tank as it lurches, turns and moves with no signal or warning. The last event I attended the tank was doing some moves when it came to a stop, the thrilled crowd who had been following the tank began to crowd around it, when suddenly it lept into reverse and shot back about four feet as the clutch was let out...very nearly crushing a lady who had been seconds before touching the right rear fender...if the track had got her leg she would have been pulled under and crushed between the track and the pavement....Very Scary. The driver/owner of the tank did not have a person in the turret to guide him and the ground guides had no radio communication with the driver and no predetermined hand signals, just a bunch of pointing and waving. Nobody seemed to mind and my cautions fell on deaf ears so that was it for me...When I take armored vehicles out to my local Legion on Remembrance Day, it is for static display only because the area they have is much to small to even safely move the vehicle let alone do any kind of exhibition for the crowd...so it is in place at 7am and out well after everyone has cleared out...even then, driver, observer, ground guide...no exceptions

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Jim Burrill

I think I am seeing this shake out into four (at least) areas
1) Vehicle and Crew safety
2) Display safety
3) Parade/road safety
4) Tactical (reenactment) safety.

....

Jim

I was thinking about tank fire/infantry safety WRT your personnel safety category. When doing live fire runs the grunts are taught to stay behind the X roadwheel when the tank is firing. For reenacting, maybe turn that around. The reenacters must be taught to stay in front of the X roadwheel so the driver and CC can see them and understand their intentions. (Think about never walking behind a horse, and stay out of spitting range of any llamas ....)

[Frank v R]

The points of safety at public events needs to be looked at by all of us (policing our hobby) this type of thing (no control over movement of crowd) can destroy our hobby, most event insurance policies are very specific on these items, we have all seen how knee jerk reactions go , ban it , destroy it , if we see something that we know should not be happening WE ALL MUST do something about it, and if the stupid ones do not want to listen get the event closed down, I remember when after a number of airshow crashes it finally came down that crew only would be permitted in the aircraft during the show, KEEP IT SAFE!!