17/25 pdr Pheasant

[Lynn Eades]

Mike C., with the utmost respect for your endless unbounded knowledge, while you are discussing the nomenclature of this "field gun".
I know that what I write here you would already know, and anything I have wrong I am happy for you to correct. I await the barrage.
Here is my personal view:

The term "gun" refers to a smooth bore.
I would suggest in this day and age of political correctness, to stay away from the term "weapon"
I is my belief that the correct usage of "weapon" should be limited to the likes of swords, bayonets etc. (edged weapons) and that small arms or firearms is the term for those sort of things.
I believe that the use of the term "weapons" only hastens the "dis arming" of the good people in this part of the world (my opinion)

Is it not correct that for a rifled artillery "gun" (and I assume the that this gun of topic, is rifled) that David is correct using (artillery) "piece"?

[Mike Cecil]

Ah, Lynn, quite an opening barrage from I-don't-know-where, but since you have zeroed in, I'll be glad to lob some counter-battery fire in your direction!

Weapon: "An instrument of ANY kind used in warfare or combat to attack and overcome an enemy". The Shorter Oxford Dictionary, V2, page 2519. I think that might include just about everything, ...... artillery, small arms, tanks, swords, trench shovels, knuckle dusters .....

"Gun: A Gun is a piece of ordnance designed with a view to the tangent elevation required for any range being as low as possible. In comparison with a Howitzer of equal calibre, it is a long weapon with a high muzzle velocity".

"RBL (Rifled Breach Loader): The first RIFLED GUNS introduced into the Service (ie British Royal Artillery), were those designed by the late Lord Armstrong ..."

Two quotes from above from the 'Textbook of Service Ordnance 1923', the capitalization within is my emphasis.

From the above, it can be seen that the term 'Gun' is not restricted to, or dependent upon, an absence of rifling. So the statement that 'Gun refers to a smoothbore' is, as demonstrated above, incorrect.

So, some examples of the official use of Gun/Guns when referring to artillery pieces that have rifling:

Pamphlet title: 'Gun Drill for QF 25 pr Gun, Marks 1/2, 3/1, 4 on Carriage 25 pr Mk 1 (1960).

Or maybe 'Gun Drill for QF 18pr Mk IV Gun on Mark IVP (LP) Field Carriages 1939',

or perhaps 'Range Tables (Part 1) for QF, 25-pr Guns, Marks 2 & 3 (1953).

So, a range of dates and titles, all referring to artillery weapons - sorry, 'pieces' - with rifled ordnance, as 'guns'.

Cease fire ... target destroyed.

Mike

[Lynn Eades]

Aaarrrggghh!!!!

[Mike Cecil]

OK, Rob I think you can have your thread back now ....

How was Normandy, and have you any other 17pdr (Aust) (Exp?) images, please?

Mike

[David Dunlop]

Love the banter Love to get you two together to discuss Art or Music sometime! :happy:

Now back to your Heavy Metal thread, Rob.


David

[Lynn Eades]

David, you would find that I knew about the same on art and music, that I know about artillery. Yes, back to the Pheasant / Hybrid. Btw, I regularly feed the odd pheasant when I feed my deer. I think Pheasant was a very apt. name. The way they explode from the ground, scaring the (your choice of verb) out of us.

[rnixartillery]

Mike,
Internet access is a bit tricky where I am and I am sat in a Mc donalds at the moment.
I have been researching the 17/25 pdr for quite a while now and have a good archive of pictures including many unseen or publicised so I don't post pictures unless they are already on the net such as the pictures you posted.
With the Australian variant being trialled so late on in the war after the temporary British conversions had been dismantled could this be an attempt to create a lightweight 17pdr baring in mind it has a welded carriage it is quite plausible.

Just visited the Suffolk regiment memorial at coleville Montgomery.

Rob......... rnixartillery