17/25 pdr Pheasant

[rnixartillery]

Thats right Adrian there were three variants ,two square hole and the last design with the round holes unfortunately I have not found the first pattern with the squarer profile.

Tim the Ad you have found is very old plus the parts are just standard 17 and 25 pdr that has clearly been clagged together.

Rob....................rnixartillery

[Tim Bell]

Originally Posted by rnixartillery

Thats right Adrian there were three variants ,two square hole and the last design with the round holes unfortunately I have not found the first pattern with the squarer profile.

Tim the Ad you have found is very old plus the parts are just standard 17 and 25 pdr that has clearly been clagged together.

Rob....................rnixartillery

Rob

Thanks for the clarification... better though for me to assume you havent seen it... than to assume you have and not post anything.

Cheers

Tim

[Mike Cecil]

Hi Rob,

I found two views: left and right rear, neither are great shots, but you should get some details from them. On closer examination, the trail appears to be the same overall design as that used on the 25-pdr Mk2/1(Aust), ie the all-welded trail with tubular cross member, but lengthened.

This was at Williamstown test range, Victoria, in 1944.

I'll be interested in your views about this weapon.

Regards

Mike

[rnixartillery]

Mike,
I am away in Normandy at the moment typing on a phone,
These are the same pictures I have of the Australian prototype, I could not find any information as to whether they produced any more and that is was no more than used for trials.

Cheers
Rob.......... rnixartillery

[Mike Cecil]

Don't remember you mentioning you already had images of it. Do you have any others?

Mike

[Lynn Eades]

Mike C., with the utmost respect for your endless unbounded knowledge, while you are discussing the nomenclature of this "field gun".
I know that what I write here you would already know, and anything I have wrong I am happy for you to correct. I await the barrage.
Here is my personal view:

The term "gun" refers to a smooth bore.
I would suggest in this day and age of political correctness, to stay away from the term "weapon"
I is my belief that the correct usage of "weapon" should be limited to the likes of swords, bayonets etc. (edged weapons) and that small arms or firearms is the term for those sort of things.
I believe that the use of the term "weapons" only hastens the "dis arming" of the good people in this part of the world (my opinion)

Is it not correct that for a rifled artillery "gun" (and I assume the that this gun of topic, is rifled) that David is correct using (artillery) "piece"?

[Mike Cecil]

Ah, Lynn, quite an opening barrage from I-don't-know-where, but since you have zeroed in, I'll be glad to lob some counter-battery fire in your direction!

Weapon: "An instrument of ANY kind used in warfare or combat to attack and overcome an enemy". The Shorter Oxford Dictionary, V2, page 2519. I think that might include just about everything, ...... artillery, small arms, tanks, swords, trench shovels, knuckle dusters .....

"Gun: A Gun is a piece of ordnance designed with a view to the tangent elevation required for any range being as low as possible. In comparison with a Howitzer of equal calibre, it is a long weapon with a high muzzle velocity".

"RBL (Rifled Breach Loader): The first RIFLED GUNS introduced into the Service (ie British Royal Artillery), were those designed by the late Lord Armstrong ..."

Two quotes from above from the 'Textbook of Service Ordnance 1923', the capitalization within is my emphasis.

From the above, it can be seen that the term 'Gun' is not restricted to, or dependent upon, an absence of rifling. So the statement that 'Gun refers to a smoothbore' is, as demonstrated above, incorrect.

So, some examples of the official use of Gun/Guns when referring to artillery pieces that have rifling:

Pamphlet title: 'Gun Drill for QF 25 pr Gun, Marks 1/2, 3/1, 4 on Carriage 25 pr Mk 1 (1960).

Or maybe 'Gun Drill for QF 18pr Mk IV Gun on Mark IVP (LP) Field Carriages 1939',

or perhaps 'Range Tables (Part 1) for QF, 25-pr Guns, Marks 2 & 3 (1953).

So, a range of dates and titles, all referring to artillery weapons - sorry, 'pieces' - with rifled ordnance, as 'guns'.

Cease fire ... target destroyed.

Mike