Kangaroo Photos wanted

[tankmodeler]

Hanno,

Wow! Great photos and showing very interesting details on each. The colour still shows a Kangaroo, but with at least two grab bars welded to the hull as visible in the photo. Normal wisdom has it that these were only on the Wallaby ammo carriers, but apparently at least some Brit 'Roos had them added in the field.

The B&W photos show what had to be an absolutely rare beast, A Kangaroo made from a Ram with the Wright version of the radial engine (the external mufflers are the giveaway). Given that these needed 100 Octane gas, they would have been a bear to find gas for in the field with everything else using 87 octane. Would not have thought any were converted to 'Roos for that reason, especially given the supply situation in late 44.

Thanks for posting them!

Paul

[David Herbert]

Paul,
Yes you are quite correct, the above Ram is one of the first 247 that were built with the Wright R975/EC2. The exhaust and air cleaner arrangement changed at the same time as the change to Continental R975/C1 engines. However by that point in the war it is very likely that tanks of this age that had mostly been used for training in the UK, would have had the engine changed, possibly more than once. It would be very easy to exchange the exhaust manifolds as the fittings are all the same. No change would be needed to the inlet side as the carb is externaly identical so the intake pipes would plug straight on. One of the good things with this family of engines is that many parts are interchangeable across different versions so engines could be updated to some extent.

David

[tankmodeler]

David,

I certainly would have thought that the engines would have been changed, but I thought one of the reasons that the exhausts came inside and the air cleaners went outside was that the arrangements of the piping were different enough that the changes had to be made. I know that Rams in Canada that were built with the Wright and later changed to the Continental all had the air cleaners and exhausts relocated with plugs welded into the holes in the rear engine plate.

We'll probably never know, of course, but in any case these would be special vehicles with special maintenance needs and thus are interesting to see in the field.

Paul

[David Herbert]

Paul,
The tanks in the UK with plugs welded into the exhaust holes in the rear plates are vehicles after Shop number 247 that were BUILT with the later exhaust arangement but were using up stocks of the earlier plates, which had been fully machined and at that point in the war could not be wasted. There must have been quite a few of these as I have seen at least six on ranges in the UK including tanks without side doors. It was much more common on (I think) the LH plate than the RH (could have been the other way round) so there were tanks with one side with a welded hole but the other plain. Relatively late in the war the early Rams being used for training in Canada were remanufactured with various late fittings. I have not seen how the exhaust openings in the rear plate were plugged but the 'production' ones were pieces of plate the same thickness as the main plate, welded in flush from both sides. When painted they probably would not show in photos at all.

In terms of the exhaust and inlet fittings on the actual engines, R975/EC2 and C1s are identical. It is only the exhaust manifolds that are different, and then only to line up with the different type of mufflers. They are entirely interchangeable. The early arangement was intended to keep all the parts under armour. When it was decided that access for maintainence and better (bigger) aircleaners were more importaint the latter design was adopted. Although it happened at the same time as the change from EC2 to C1 it need not have done though as the C1s were supplied with the later manifolds it was obviously better to make the change then.

David

[tankmodeler]

Originally Posted by David Herbert

In terms of the exhaust and inlet fittings on the actual engines, R975/EC2 and C1s are identical. It is only the exhaust manifolds that are different, and then only to line up with the different type of mufflers. They are entirely interchangeable. The early arangement was intended to keep all the parts under armour. When it was decided that access for maintainence and better (bigger) aircleaners were more importaint the latter design was adopted. Although it happened at the same time as the change from EC2 to C1 it need not have done though as the C1s were supplied with the later manifolds it was obviously better to make the change then.

David

Great to know,. I was under the impression that the arrangement of the piping and ducting in the C1s was sufficiently different that their air cleaners _had_ to be moved outside, so a tank with the internal air cleaners would _have_ to be fitted with the Wright. Cool to find out this isn't true. Thanks a bunch!

Paul

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Hello Paul,

Glad you like the pictures.

Originally Posted by tankmodeler

Wow! Great photos and showing very interesting details on each. The colour still shows a Kangaroo, but with at least two grab bars welded to the hull as visible in the photo. Normal wisdom has it that these were only on the Wallaby ammo carriers, but apparently at least some Brit 'Roos had them added in the field.

Normal wisdom is right, the rungs or hand rails were not fitted to Kangaroos. But in practice, Gun Towers were converted into Armoured Personnel Carriers (see Mark Tonner's recent articles on this subject), of which the hand rails and rear towing hook were not removed. So externally at least they still looked like Gun Towers, but were in facts APCs.

The B&W photos show what had to be an absolutely rare beast, A Kangaroo made from a Ram with the Wright version of the radial engine (the external mufflers are the giveaway). Given that these needed 100 Octane gas, they would have been a bear to find gas for in the field with everything else using 87 octane. Would not have thought any were converted to 'Roos for that reason, especially given the supply situation in late 44.

I understand your excitement, but I cannot see such a special vehicle with special maintenance needs surviving in the field in 1944.

As pointed out by David Herbert - a veritable Ram expert I might add - chances are that this late during the war, Wright R975-EC2 engines would have been replaced by R975-C1 (or -C4) radial engines, simply because they would no longer be supported by the supply system. And changing them over was relatively easily: if not during conversion, then by the time the original R975-EC2 was worn out, it would have to be replaced by a -C1, simply because EC-2's were no longer to be had from store supplies.

Hanno

[John McGillivray]

Look at this Canadian Newsreel at the 7:57 time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vvVsVU2KhE