Info needed: correct colours for WWII Aust vehicles

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

Once the paint colours have been established and are repeatable the next question is what type of paint are people considering using?

A common cheap paint seems to be a spraying enamel. When a flattening agent is added to this it very quickly goes chalky and looks terrible.

I suspect that's probably the first question Keith, as we need to specify the paint type at the time of colour matching.

Tony Baker provides much valuable information and advice concerning paint types on page 1 of this thread. I've since dealt with a few paint suppliers and each one has strongly recommended acrylic paint for matt applications. The reason they give is the far lower percentage of flattener required to achieve full matt finish. Flattener is bad stuff in any paint and the less used the better, as it results in loss of durability. Tony explains this well on page 1. In Tony's case he opted for low sheen or lustreless finish, whereas for camo vehicles I believe full matt finish is essential, which would require even more flattener, causing further loss of durability. This can be offset to some extent by the use of hardener, which Tony strongly recommends for all enamel applications, but given the inordinate amount of flattener required to produce full matt finish with enamel paint I'm worried about opacity problems, ie. the chalky appearance you mention Keith. Therefore I suspect acrylic is probably the way to go for our purposes. Enamel is cheaper but it's false economy if it requires regular repainting.

Any thoughts on the subject would be most welcome. I used some full matt acrylic myself last year and I'm 100% happy with the result. Plenty of colour depth and a year out in the weather hasn't changed that in the slightest. It's also extremely hard, unlike the chalky enamel repaint on the vehicle! Another consideration may be user friendliness, and everyone tells me acrylic wins hands down in this respect, including Tony on page 1. It so happens I've never used anything BUT acrylic on vehicles, which is probably just as well for an amateur like me! I used two-pack on a plywood boat once and it's certainly marvellous stuff, but definitely not suited to MV resto work IMO. Anyway it's probably impossible to flatten, judging by Tony's experiments with two-pack initially.

[Mrs Vampire]

And then the question will be who is going to get the colours right?

A first go by me . Getting paint matched to artifacts or chips its all the same .

Three hero sized chips from paint supplied to match samples provided.

The first is industrial enamel matched by the supplier of paints to the smash repair folks around Bankstown. The eye matcher has a reputation for being one of the best. MY score...within a bulls roar...if you can hear the bull from the next village. The paint is industrial enamel 10% gloss (dead flat) covers grey primer in two coats by brush ..application ...moderate.

The second is White Knight matched using their computer gadget at Bunnings... The match can't be detected when dry paint as a small swipe applied to the artifact.(that is its just about perfect) It is semigloss so 60% gloss but I can get flattening agent to dull that down. The White Knight paint is horrible...takes three coats to cover grey primer lots of brush strokes stay evident and difficult to apply .Bunnings give you the formula it is repeatable.

The final one is the Coultards Alkyd paint from the seventies...just to try it out. Application is easy covers in one coat and leaves little by way of brush strokes.

The colour is going to differ depending on the kind of paint used , acrylic, two pack ,enamel oil based, enamel Alkyd...amount of flatting. They were painted with an early version of Alkyd enamel during the war and look to be dead flat. (10% or so) as noted earlier the pigments are different so they will look different in different lights. I found the less ambient light the more they looked the same until in the absence of any light they looked identical.!!! true.

I may be in the process of abandoning my quest for perfection....

I to match original Australian oil filter bracket off CMP late 1942/43 green . 2 of NOS CMP door hinge early 1942 green.

3 is Coultards 1970s Khaki as applied to Ackos.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Very interesting thread indeed!

Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler

I suspect that's probably the first question Keith, as we need to specify the paint type at the time of colour matching.

[snip]

Any thoughts on the subject would be most welcome.

I have been trying to get useful information from other restorers, but most of the replies I got imply that most don't know what type of paint they use. Many of them just buy the colour they need - most often OD - off the shelf from many of the dealers stocking just as many brands and types of paint.

The problem today seems that car paint suppliers these days focus on high-gloss paint, which needs to be applied in professional spray booths and need to dry quickly.

A better source seems to be the industrial equipment industry, although they seem to use 2-pack paint predominantly, which is very hard wearing but less easy to apply by the hobbyist.

For now I have decided to go for an alkyd-based paint, as this seems to give the best result between durability and easy of application by brush & roller.

Anyone care to comment on this?

Hanno

[Mrs Vampire]

Hanno

I am looking at Alkyd too. It is a current Australian Army preference and truck I have seen with original coats from the seventies seem to endure very well.

Likewise found it easy to use apply and so on.

[Lynn Eades]

Gina, does it work if i want to apply touch up coats, or paint bolt heads after assembly, or to add another colour on top in the case of a camo scheme?

[Mrs Vampire]

Lynn ...yes it is easily touch up able and can be painted over. painting over old coats only needs prep wash to arrive at good adhesion.

Brushing on a bit here and there over sprayed coats are nearly undetectable.

The military enamels used in Australia have to be able to be used in the field with primitive equipment by untrained troops. That is about the same as the requirement during WWII.

[Mrs Vampire]

Values for British Standards WWII paint from BS987C 1942

L* a* b* R G B
SCC 1A 24 3 5 64 55 50
SCC 2 22 24 12 89 37 37
SCC 4 44 17 17 140 94 77
SCC 5 62 2 22 166 147 111
SCC 7 34 1 11 89 80 63
SCC 10 37 30 25 140 65 48
SCC 11 25 .-1 10 64 59 44
SCC 11A 37 52 40 166 35 23
SCC 15 32 0 27 89 75 32
SCC 16 22 2 16 64 52 30

[Mrs Vampire]

Another discovery today on the rear armour of the Stuart. Nice blue stencils for the equipment . This one for the AXE

The stencil is under the Light Stone paint but above the Green .

All other stencils I have found so far have been black