Armor removal and armor screws

[Mrs Vampire]

Hi Motto

Most the rear nuts are captive...the others way way back inside the engine compartment .

If I can get the rear armor off then maybe I can reach in and split the nuts on the top deck...its a good suggestion.

Hey Andy ...you are right I can make one of those....what a great gadget!!!

as to the swearing...I was looking to vocabulary extension....

[Robin Craig]

Just a word about slot screw heads and modern screw driver type tools.

The tips on modern screwdrivers are tapered and the old type screwdrivers used by armourers have parralel tips.

The difference is that the tapered screwdrivers will naturally try and climb out of the slot head, that is why they round off and are so hated. An armourer type friend taught me this.

My 2 penny worth

R

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Robin Craig

Just a word about slot screw heads and modern screw driver type tools.

The tips on modern screwdrivers are tapered and the old type screwdrivers used by armourers have parallel tips.

The difference is that the tapered screwdrivers will naturally try and climb out of the slot head, that is why they round off and are so hated. An armourer type friend taught me this.

My 2 penny worth

R

Good point Robin.

This question reminds me of other posts, but I forget the answers. Surely this isn't the only forum on the net for armour restorers?

[David Herbert]

Looking at the ebay item in Andrew's post #10 it seems to be ordinary screwdriver bits and adaptors off a market stall and a 1/2" to 3/8" adaptor welded to a piece of pipe and painted white. I don't understand how this is any advantage over a normal T bar handle except you can put a really long piece of pipe into it and destroy the bit with less effort.

In my experience the driver bits shown are useless when confronted with "oval head bolts" (the correct term for them, from the parts lists) and I favour the use of a piece of leaf spring, carefully ground to a suitable shape, without getting it hot, and turned with the aid of a big adjustable spanner. Heating the bolt up to red hot and then letting it cool before trying helps too. Splitting the nuts is a good plan but usually the ones that won't undo are the ones that you can't get to the back of.

Quite a good way to measure the size of a problem like this is to count the number of beers that you must consume before the answer becomes obvious. A large vocabulary helps too.

David

[Steve Greenberg]

Gina,
Do you have drag link sockets like these listed on ebay? I think Snap ON makes an impact socket.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Walden-Worce...item2c88e0df3c

Steve

[Mrs Vampire]

Hi Steve.

I have used those drag link sockets and they break of at around the second hit with my impact wrench. maybe I should be using snap on
I guess I could use them when the bolts are loose enough ...

My current driver is a ground down Allen head impact drive socket.

I get ones that are big enough to provide a good screw driver head when ground. I am careful not to over heat in the grinding process and the length gives me lots of room for extra grinds when the driver gets rounded or bent.

The problem with blade drives and impact wrenches is keeping the driver in the slot, it jumps out as soon as it gets going on account of the physics of it all.

All that said ...the inch drive rattle gun makes not the slightest difference to most of the bolts.

I will make up a leaf spring driver as suggested as well as the modified pipe wrench thingy ....being able to put a substantially long bar through it makes it far more powerful than a T bar but i suspect as advised earlier I will need a couple of friends to help with it.

I think getting things low and close to the job is also important so the leaf spring idea has the advantage of me being able to make the thing right down close to the job.....all the sockets etc mean the leverage is a couple of inches of the armor so keeping the thing vertical while straining against the bolt becomes an issue.

Terry ...if there are other forums that tackle removing armor bolts I have been unable to find them...in fact when it comes to practical help MLU is the best around as far as I have found ...that said if anyone knows of another source i would be most grateful for links.

many many thanks for all of your combined wisdomes

[motto]

I understand the issues now with the nuts being captive or inaccessible you only have the head of the screw to work on.
The most effective tool I encountered for undoing screws on aircraft (sometimes by the hundred) was a rivet gun with tip adaptor and handle. The principle was that the shock load was applied completely independent of any radial force unlike an impact driver. Of course the screws in that case were 3/16" or 1/4" diameter.
To translate the principle to what you are attempting would require a jack-hammer or pavement breaker fitted with an appropriate tip and a handle to apply rotational force to it.
Maybe just fantasy but who knows what people have laying about the place.

David

[chris vickery]

There is also a tool which is hand impact driver of sorts, typically used on things like auto door hinge screws etc.
Look up Lisle 29200 on the internet to see what I'm talking about. Other companies such as Proto, SnapOn etc make them as well.
If you opt to purchase one, buy a good one.
It works like this;
You have a handle which has a striking surface at one end and a hex driver on the other. There are some mechanics inside which allows it to be used for driving in or loosening out screws by twisting the shaft one way or the other to change drive direction.
They usually come in a kit with various types of bits including the parallel ground type slotted bits.
You place the appropriate bit in the driver, place it into the screw and strike the end of the handle with a large hammer. I am sure if the bolt were heated it would help. I have used it in the past and it worked great.
I have often found as well that it benefits to try tightening rusted bolts a bit before trying to loosen them.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by motto

I understand the issues now with the nuts being captive or inaccessible you only have the head of the screw to work on.
The most effective tool I encountered for undoing screws on aircraft (sometimes by the hundred) was a rivet gun with tip adaptor and handle. The principle was that the shock load was applied completely independent of any radial force unlike an impact driver. Of course the screws in that case were 3/16" or 1/4" diameter.
To translate the principle to what you are attempting would require a jack-hammer or pavement breaker fitted with an appropriate tip and a handle to apply rotational force to it.
Maybe just fantasy but who knows what people have laying about the place.

David

David,
You have given me an idea here, an air needle gun or descaling tool. Remove the needles and make an adaptor to fit on of the screwdriver ends in to.

I have gone through the pain of these countersink screws on wartime British armour although they have deeper heads the slot is shallow and narrow. The head being more pronounced allows a flat drift to be used to knock the head sideways a fraction to break rust seal and allow penetrating fluid in.