Frozen nuts & bolts: tips & tricks

[Stuart Fedak]

Text removed as information is no longer current

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Stuart

Acetone and Automatic Transmission Fluid mixed 50/50 and 24hrs time, I've tried all of the commercial penetrating solutions and have not found that works any better. Squirt all the bolts both ends, you plan to undo with this solution, then let them sit over night or even squirt them again and let them stand longer. Have had amazing results.

Next trick is vibration, using a punch in my air chisel and the air pressure turned down to like 20 PSI vibrate the bolt and nut. If you can hit them straight on and then the nut in particular from the side. You don't want to deform the bolt or nut you just want to vibrate the rust in the threads.

Cheers Phil

[chris vickery]

An old wrench turners trick is to try tightening old rusted bolts and nuts before trying to loosen them. You would be amazed at how often this works.
I usually try to soak stuff the day before as well with penetrant.
Alternatively, heat can be your friend, either heating it up and turning it off red hot, or, heating it up and quenching rapidly with water which breaks the rust bond.
I have used almost any and all methods to bust out a seized nut and bolt over the years and typically it is not a "one size fits all" approach.
As my father taught me a long time ago, start with finesse and ramp it up a bit at a time until you find what works. A bigger hammer is not always the solution but sometimes neccessary. Good luck!

[Bob Carriere]

I agree with Chris.... heat and cold and more heat and oil soak in between. Finnnnnness is the secret.... very few bolts will resist the hot/cold cycle.... but patience is a great attribute..... heavy handed hammers just break things. Nice to cycle the impact gun forward and back to release it.

Once broken I have had good luck with welding a nut to the broken stud even if broken flush with the casting. We actyually save old rusted nuts in a can for that purpose, Sometimes you need to weld a few nuts before one really sticks to the stud..... heat again from welding contributes to releasing.

I have very very strong hatred for any kind of easy out...... they break in the bolts then you are really stuck... can't drill them out as they are hard tempered and the drill bit skids to the side and messes up the hole. Easy out should be banned from hardware stores.

We are users of Gibbs from the states as a release liquid..... we bring it in by the dozen spray cans..... although I have used various mixtures of snake oil, tranny fluid and acetone but diesel does work great if you need lots to flood a seized engine with stuck rings....just flush it down the carb and let it sit.....

My dad used bees wax on bolts that had been heated and had good success.... anybody else ever used it??

Cheers

[rob love]

If you can get a sharp chisel on a nut, a good whack or two will split the nut and leave the threads untouched. This is especially good on the Bren carriers for the BSF armoured bolts. Nuts are easy enough to get, but the bolts are difficult to replicate. A pair of clipper cut bolt cutters will also do the same if you have room to get them in. You can take regular bolt cutters and convert them to clipper cut by grinding the nose flush a little.

If you can get heat on it, a red nut cannot resist the rust or damage to the threads. They do tend to be quite heavy though if you try and catch them or pick them up.

Another option is the parrot beak pliers. I believe crescent makes them, and snap on re-distributes them under their brand name with different colour handles. They are like a water pump plier (pliers, multiple toungue and groove in army speak) but the jaws are curved as opposed to straight like the normal water pump pliers. They will grip like no other plier (including the old original vice grips...the new made ones are crap).

As mentioned already, welding a nut over a broken stud, collar, or even a bolt will free it up if you catch it while cooling.

Another thing that surprised me recently, was those "one size fits all" sockets...the kind with all the tiny spring loaded pins. I had cab bolts under the floor of the MLVW that had rounded out, and were through a hole and in the floor channels. They had rusted out to be too small for a 9/16, and even too rounded to accept a 1/2 inch socket, or any similar sized metric. But I put the stupid "multi fit" socket onto it, and out it came. Worked on the second, third and fourth one as well. Unbelievable. That socket will remain in my tool box now....it was headed to the junk pile of useless tools before that. But before you run out and buy one, I must warn you that your mileage may vary (ymmv in computer lingo).

[Jacques Reed]

All very good methods mentioned here. Agree that heat is often the best method where safe to do so. Even before I had oxy-acetylene I have had good results with just the good old Bernz-O-Matic torch.

Another couple of tricks to add to the repertoire is to rap the top of the studs a few times before attempting to back out. Again this is all about breaking the rust bind with slight movement at the threads.

I have also had some success with a Dremel tool and a small cutoff wheel cutting away the side of a wasted nut. Can do the same with a hacksaw if access permits.
Have also used a "Gator Grip" movable pin wrench mentioned above and was successful with it.

It is always best to remove as much rust and dirt from exposed threads before starting to disassemble things. Penetrant works better when they are clean. Wire brushing is a good start and where possible I sometimes have immersed exposed threads in weak phosphoric acid (paint prep deoxidizer) to clean threads completely.

As others have mentioned here, patience is the key and trying different methods depending on the situation will usually result in success.

Cheers

[Lynn Eades]

The only stud extractors that I have had consistent joy with are the spline type. The spiral ones are just a disaster waiting to happen. The worst situation is trying to remove broken brass fittings. (like drain taps in V8 blocks)Don't even try them.
No one has mentioned a die grinder (dremel) or these fine cut off discs. ( I have blown a few to bits by mis- using them as grinding discs)(side loading them) but they are great! With a bit of care you can grind small amounts away.
Heat and quenching works well, but care needs to be execised if the part is heat treated and the intention is to re use it.

[rob love]

I was recently removing broken pieces of conduit from the Bren gun carrier elbows. I would stick a 1/4" or a 5/16 bolt into the short broken piece of conduit, and weld it in. One of the characteristics of a weld is that it will shrink as it cools. Once cool, I would screw out the broken piece of conduit. Worked every time. I accidentally welded a bolt onto a piece of brass (or possibly bronze), not realizing it was one of the end collars. It came out just as nicely as any of the steel ones.

The weld trick will also work for bearing races that are either stuck in a bore or else in a bore that you cannot hammer it out of. You can either do a series of short welds in and out, or you can do a weld all the way around the surface of the race. Once the weld cools, the race shrinks and you can remove it. WARNING: Do not try this on a bearing cone that is on a shaft as you will have the opposite effect of shrinking it to the shaft. For those, raw heat or careful use of the cutting torch is in order.

[Jacques Reed]

I agree with all the comments here regarding the use of stud extractors- virtually useless and downright likely to break off causing an even bigger problem. Most seem to be made of drill steel and we all know what happens to drills if you overload them. Perhaps in the past they were made of tougher steel before China became our main tool supplier.

Ron Bishop in his now outdated book, "Rebuilding The Famous Ford Flathead" seems to think they work but I wonder if he ever used one himself? He also says to run a tap through the stud threads in the block which should not be done, just chase the threads, and to get the cylinder block decked which current practice shuns do to thinning an already thin deck.

Having said all that, however, I only once saw an extractor work but it was used in conjunction with heat. A mate of mine removed a 1/4" broken screw from my steering column bracket. First he drilled the broken screw, screwed in the Easy-out, then heated around the screw hole in the bracket. When it was dull red, he was able to easily back out the broken screw with the Easy-out. So perhaps there is limited use of them in some cases- just not engine blocks!

Cheers,

[John Mackie]

i use a method which i works well for me. either drill 2 or 3 small holes radiely on a flat of the nut, split with a chisel .
On bigger nuts drill a hole near the apex of the nut. drill parralel to the axis of the bolt and try not to drill the threads of the bolt. then split the nut. in both cases the operation can br reoeared on the opposite side of the nut,.

[fv1620]

These tools are absolutely brilliant, have got me out of trouble many times. They do it cleanly & particularly in difficult access areas.

http://www.irwin.com/tools/browse/sc...olt-extractors

[Private_collector]

Reading through all these postings on one go, it seems most are in agreeance that modern tools are not a pinch on the tools of yesterday. Easy-outs, vice grips, etc...., will leave you disappointed more often than not. Go to every swap meet that is practical to attend. Buy ancient tools that have stood the test of time, and use those. The modern versions appear to be made of cheese when compared with stuff from the 1950s and backwards. China has a lot to answer for!

[rob love]

Yes, but in a decade or two they will own us. They are quickly buying all the raw resources and energy,already have the majority of the manufacturing capability, and by what I have read, even any gold assets that come available. We are living in a time where things are often cheaper than they were 20 or 40 years ago. We'll pay for that.

Rob