Scout T5329

[Ben]

Ron, thanks for letting me measure your WS11 frame. A friend of mine did a fantastic job copying it and looked at the signals museum example too. He made half of a second frame whilst he was at it, perhaps something for a rainy day! There's an awful lot of work getting it right. But it's nice to have the extra details in the vehicle.

[Philliphastings]

Ben the job you have done with the little Scout is nothing short of stunning. I could only ever imagine what it might look like if I had been capable of restoring it but the way it has turned out is incredible.

I could never have done it justice.

I am absolutely over the moon about the end result. Congratulations !

Kind regards

Phill

[Ben]

It's been a little while since I made a post on the Scout thread but I thought I'd share an interesting find.

A few weeks ago a friend of mine sent me some photos of a few parts that a chap was trying to identify, they'd been removed by the chap's father as souvenirs off some vehicles in Belgium during May 1940. He initially thought they were from an 18 pdr.

A couple of the parts were easy to identify, Bren pintles, Brass aerial bases, but there were two parts I'd never seen before. As I scrolled through the photos and noticed the hole pattern it occurred to me that they must be the gun mount for the Scout.

I explained what I thought they were and that this bracket was missing on my Scout (it's even missing in the period AWM pictures of it on the streets of Perth) I agreed to buy all the parts and a few days later they arrived.

It fitted the holes in the front armour perfectly, they're made of gun metal by MCC (Morris commercial cars) dated 1939. They pivot horizontally and the springs allow for the recoil of the Boys rifle, the wing nuts are for clamping the gun into the mount and the rotation allows for vertical elevation. After a light sand blast I painted one and fitted it into place, pictures below.

There must be a fitting thats clamped to the Boys rifle that allows it to fit the mount, this would mean it could be dropped into the mount and locked into place by the wing nut clamps. Any pictures or suggestions are very welcome!! I've got lots of pictures from the period but no clues......... I think this fitting could be as unique as the mount as there can't me very many vehicles that had the Boys rifle solidly mounted.

Ben

[shaun]

Perhaps if you removed the monopod and rails it mounted on the barrel support "nut" as it has lugs .

[Ben]

The gun appears to stay complete. I've never seen a better picture of the mount or gun in the mount until I got these parts.
The monopod is always folded forward and at the same fixed height from the pictures I've seen.

Ben

[charlie fitton]

Can't wait to see more on this..

[Lynn Eades]

Ben, great to see the mount fitted. I did wonder if we would ever know what they looked like. Quite different from what I expected.

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Ben

There must be a fitting thats clamped to the Boys rifle that allows it to fit the mount, this would mean it could be dropped into the mount and locked into place by the wing nut clamps. Any pictures or suggestions are very welcome!!

Congratulations on your miraculous find Ben. Now we just need to figure out how it works!

Boys anti tank rifle carrier mount detail.jpeg


Photo shows the gun is clamped adjacent to the trunnion, which leads me to suspect they used special trunnion bearings with projections to fit the clamps. That way there'd be no need to modify the cradle (which would inevitably involve welding and/or drilling) and the parts would offer quick easy field mod for Boys rifles in service.


Boys anti tank rifle Kevin Powles MLU (trunnion bearing detail).jpg

Boys anti tank rifle Kevin Powles MLU (trunnion bearing detail; image reversed).jpg

IMG_5161.JPG


Note that the gun mount springs are NOT intended to absorb recoil. Their purpose is to counterbalance the rifle so it rests horizontally, rather than pointing skyward and requiring the gunner to lift the heavy butt end. That's why one clamp is square, to eliminate rotation at that point. Vertical elevation is provided by the hinge pin at the bottom.


Cheers,
Tony

[Ben]

Hi Tony

I agree that a trunnion method similar to what you have drawn could be a good answer to the problem. It's very similar to what I'd imagined the fitting would look like.

The square hole does suggest that it's for stopping rotation but the springs aren't a counterbalance, they're far too strong. Even with the leverage of the gun you'd have to really force against the springs for any sort of evlevation, you can't compress them with your hand.

There are pictures of Scouts in a line and the gun barrels are all at the same angle and another at different angles, this suggests that they're free to move. The part at the rear of the flat rotation plate is a rubber rest. I've assumed that the gun sits against this when not in use, when needed the gunner lifts the butt and has free movement in a similar fashion to the way the Bren mount is used.

I've looked at an unhealthy number of period carrier pictures to try and understand how the gun fits into the mount, no real answers. Discussion here is good as it gets us all thinking.

Thanks

Ben

[Ben]

All at the rest position?

[Ben]

Different angles but whilst at rest.

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Ben

I've looked at an unhealthy number of period carrier pictures to try and understand how the gun fits into the mount

Now you've got me doing it too Ben!


Universal Carrier Mk I with experimental armoured hood and Boys anti-tank rifle, Albury Heath, S.jpg

[RichardT10829]

Trunion ring on the rifle appears to sit level with the armour... Ben how far back is the bracket mounts from the front armour ?

Once that data is known just measure back from the Trunion on the rifle