Chevrolet C60L ARN 89131

[Matt Austin]

G'day folks,

I saw this vehicle today, for sale not so far from me. It was the bloke's fire unit until about five years ago. I've tried to find out about Blitz tippers, but none of those pictured online look quite the same. It appears that many of them had dual rear wheels and spaced front wheels. Also, the bottom of the tray looks later. I'm wondering what it is? The tray seems to have been painted the same green as the cab, at some point. If the tray isn't original, it does appear to be military, as there is a lot of dark green paint under various parts.

I couldn't see any sign of an ARN, as the paint is pretty-well gone in the area in question. The owner is a really friendly and helpful bloke.

I'm a blitz noob! What do we have here?

Cheers,
Matt

[cliff]

looks like a fairly complete late model 13 cab General Service. Rear body is original GS unit and if it 'tips' it has been made to do so post war. Doors are the canvas type and the spare wheel carrier original as well. Good find

[Euan McDonald]

Hi Matt,
I would appear to be a standard C60L fixed side tray. The dash and doors would also make it late production. I would suspect it was used by NSW bush fire brigade going by the colour scheme.
The tray is original and should have a storage box or two under the left hand side.
I have a very simular truck for sale in Melbourne if anyone is interested.

[Matt Austin]

There you go, told you I was a Blitz noob! Thanks, gents.

What are the best references for learning about these vehicles? Is there a definitive book?

This one has a Holden six in it, so if I wanted it, I imagine I'd have to find an original engine for it, eventually.

A Blitz would be an ideal machine, I just need to convince the boss of the house! Then there's the question of a fair price. The owner is a good bloke, so I'd want to offer him a decent price. It's all subjective, I guess.

Cheers,
Matt

[Shane]

Matt did he tell you a price???

[Matt Austin]

He did, Shane. Based on those that sold at an auction in Marrar a couple of years ago, he put it at around 5k, given that his is a runner. I have no idea, and I don't want to insult him, but I'd be interested to know what prices have been lately. I'm a little reluctant to bring it up, as I've been on forums where people arrive and ask questions about price because they want a free valuation. That'd not the case here, and I hope I'm not giving anyone that idea, especially as I'm looking as a potential buyer, not someone looking to sell.

I fully understand if people prefer not to comment.

Cheers,
Matt

[Shane]

No worries mate. I think along the lines of the fact they just don't and never will make these trucks again. So how much is something worth, just as much as one is willing to pay. It all depends on what you want but because i have Cab 12 goggles on i think 5K would bring in a better truck than this.

[Howard]

G'day Matt,
I had a look at this truck a few months back while I was working out that way.
From memory, (I'll have to find the photos), the engine is not a Holden, but the correct Chev OHV six.
The brake booster is not original, looks to be Bedford (?) remotely mounted where the LH fuel tank should be.
It is a very neat and tidy truck which IMHO would be an easy restoration. It is outside my budget, and also has the wrong badging, so I would like to see it snapped up.
Cheers, H

[Matt Austin]

G'day Howard,

Thanks very much. It's now on the top of my desirable list! Just gotta work out how to get, 1) the coin, and 2) approval from the Minister for War and Finance!

Cheers,
Matt

[Ryan]

Matt I don't think you should feel bad trying to knock the price down a bit. If you can't afford 5k tell him. Your being honest, you want to restore it, not wreck it so it is going to a good home. The truck looks great, I don't think you will regret buying it.
I don't think an offer of 3k is rude. You can always go up if he says no.

[Tony Wheeler]

Whatever you decide to offer Matt, it's worth knowing this truck has been listed on ebay at some stage. It appears in my saved ebay images, as seen below.

[Ryan]

Ah, I remember that truck Tony. Northern Vic wasn't it? Only a few years ago. And around 8k asking price. Or have I got that wrong.

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Matt Austin

He did, Shane. Based on those that sold at an auction in Marrar a couple of years ago,
Cheers,
Matt

That would be old Bill Pattisons place. I visited him a few times in the 1980's . The pick of his stuff was the Ford 1940 battery staff roadster ute , he just would not part with it - sadly he left it outside and it really fell to bits , it even had the original canvas top rotting on it .

I did persuade him to sell a ex army 1941 ford 15 cwt truck 11D .... the rare model with the widened car 16" wheels . Glassons in Wagga had it as A TOW TRUCK in blue livery . I did a rough rebuild on it and took it to tassie where I got it registered in Devonport ! The ferry trip over was nice , my brother lives down there . I sold it to a film company and if you ever see a movie "the nun and the bandit" thats my truck in the movie . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nun_and_the_Bandit Paul Cox came out of the Middle Park office and said hi to me as I was replacing the radiator , they paid me to do some work on it, they paid 800 bucks to have the radiator recored

Cannot believe this ..on u tube my truck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf0pGxXBTyI

the tyres on it are bar treads ..very cut up ones too . I hand painted the vehicle with house paint !
Bill had some very nice CMP's in his collection . As a teenager during the war, he told me, Wirraways would often fly over the farm on training hops . One crashed into a tree near Marrar killing the 2 flyers . The roof of his bungalow was held down by heavy lumps of metal tied to ropes and hung over the eaves ..... I have some pics of some of his vehicles somewhere

[Richard Seymour]

Moderator's note: split off from Australian CMP spare tyre carrier and merged with Chev Blitz tipper?

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Hi Darrin,

89134 - Truck, 3 ton, Stores (Unbinned), Chevrolet C60L, chassis number 38443S61287. Taken on charge in NSW. I see it had an engine change over as late as 1960.

I'm curious to learn what led you to conclude that your truck is a 'late 44 early 45' build, as I know you do research into the history of your vehicles. Two reasons I ask: firstly, the delivery year for your truck, and indeed the entire group of ARNs it falls into, is listed as 1943. Secondly, the prefix '3' on the chassis number indicates a 1943 build, according to the Dept of Defence Identification document, page 10, Chevrolet War Dept : 'The first digit represents the last figure of year of manufacture'.

In any event, the MGO Equipment Memorandum for December 1943 is quite specific regarding the introduction of the 'Ladder, Tyre (Aust)'. Like everything, though, things are not rigid: there may be any number of reasons why an individual vehicle at the time of its disposal had the earlier style carrier: using up excess stock at time of manufacture, changeover during service, etc etc.

Mike

The C60L I have just purchased has a chassis serial number 3-8443-61278, so is 9 units before Darrin Wright's truck.
It has a build date of 27/10/44 stamped on the plate.
Going by that, his quite well could be a 1944 truck.
Or am I wrong??

[Matt Austin]

Good to see that Old Junee is has joined Ganmain as the spreading Blitz zone of the Riverina! Regardless, I'm glad that it's growing in an easterly direction; at that rate it should reach me in Junee soon!

All the best with your resto, Richard.

Cheers,
Matt

[Richard Seymour]

Probably not going to be a restoration, more a "fix what is broken to get it on the road"
and not far from you now lol

[Mike Cecil]

Hi Richard,

Good that your truck has the build plate (Darrin's did/does not), which helps with the possibilities.

Your truck is possibly 89131 from the same batch of Stores (Unbinned) taken on charge in NSW. The chassis numbers have a gap - 3844361278 is one of them, but given the sequence around it, 89131 with engine PR3946239, is the best possibility. Your vehicle was disposed of in 1962. (The other is 89127).

So, the possibility is that the batch of chassis arrived in 1943 and were assembled out of their boxes from Canada and stamped in late 1943, (even early 1944), but assembly of the complete truck with its special body wasn't completed until Oct 1944, when the plate was fixed onto the dash (it's almost the last thing to happen).

Given the wind-down in requirements for CMPs from 1943 onwards, and that this is a specialist vehicle, possibly with a lower delivery priority (each different body type had a delivery priority), this might well be the case. It's a theory, anyway, that accounts for a 1943-stamped chassis with a build date well into 1944!

Mike

[Howard]

Originally Posted by Richard Seymour

The C60L I have just purchased has a chassis serial number 3-8443-61278, so is 9 units before Darrin Wright's truck.
It has a build date of 27/10/44 stamped on the plate.
Going by that, his quite well could be a 1944 truck.
Or am I wrong??

Good to see you on board here, Fingers!
Ask questions, and usually the answer comes.
Good luck with your truck. See you (and it) at Corowa!
Cheers
H
And to answer your question when we spoke on the phone the other night, "What is Corowa"?
Vids by our own Keefy

Sorry to hijack your thread, Ken... Fingers your truck has been discussed before HERE

[Richard Seymour]

Engine PR3946239 is what is on the plate, but not sure if that is the engine in the truck now.
The 89131 you refer to... what number is that, or what does it indicate?

[Mike Cecil]

89131 is the Australian Commonwealth registration number, commonly referred to as the Army Registration Number or 'ARN'. It is the number painted in white numerals on the flats below the windscreen, either side of the bonnet, and on the rear tail gate.

Glad I picked it correctly - it was the most likely, and the engine number on the plate is the link we needed to confirm its Army identity.

Mike

[Richard Seymour]

Gday all, I thought I should start a thread on my truck rather than continue the hijack of another members thread.

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=22899

And

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ight=combaning

Now that I have the ARN,
A) how do I go about finding where and to whom it was stationed?
B) how it was originally specified (ie. did it have any special equipment, colour scheme, did it have the canvas canopy on the back, etc.)


Thanks to Mike Cecil, he has helped a lot.

Hi Richard,

Good that your truck has the build plate (Darrin's did/does not), which helps with the possibilities.

Your truck is possibly 89131 from the same batch of Stores (Unbinned) taken on charge in NSW. The chassis numbers have a gap - 3844361278 is one of them, but given the sequence around it, 89131 with engine PR3946239, is the best possibility. Your vehicle was disposed of in 1962. (The other is 89127).

So, the possibility is that the batch of chassis arrived in 1943 and were assembled out of their boxes from Canada and stamped in late 1943, (even early 1944), but assembly of the complete truck with its special body wasn't completed until Oct 1944, when the plate was fixed onto the dash (it's almost the last thing to happen).

Given the wind-down in requirements for CMPs from 1943 onwards, and that this is a specialist vehicle, possibly with a lower delivery priority (each different body type had a delivery priority), this might well be the case. It's a theory, anyway, that accounts for a 1943-stamped chassis with a build date well into 1944!

Mike

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Last edited by Mike Cecil; 29-05-15 at 22:53.

Then

89131 is the Australian Commonwealth registration number, commonly referred to as the Army Registration Number or 'ARN'. It is the number painted in white numerals on the flats below the windscreen, either side of the bonnet, and on the rear tail gate.

Glad I picked it correctly - it was the most likely, and the engine number on the plate is the link we needed to confirm its Army identity.

Mike

And Howard Holgate has also been helpful, even though he is give me a hard time about it being a Chevrolet....

Thanks in advance

[hrpearce]

I'm fairly shore Howard has a Chev in his stable.

[Keith Webb]

The info Mike has provided is about as much as is available - the AWM 126 series of vehicle registration records are pretty light on for detail unfortunately and usually only show the ARN, engine and chassis number, wheel size, body type, where taken on charge, sometimes engine number changes, and often disposal dates and where they were disposed and to whom. Actually that's quite a bit but there is nothing there of their actual service life.

[Richard Seymour]

Ok, so without knowing how this particular truck was specified, what would be the most likely/common colour and equipment?
Was the canvas canopy standard on a General Service body?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Richard Seymour

Gday all, I thought I should start a thread on my truck rather than continue the hijack of another members thread.

Hello Richard,

I have now split off the relevant postings from Australian CMP spare tyre carrier and merged with the Chev Blitz tipper? thread in an effort to keep everything pertaining your truck in one thread.

HTH,
Hanno

[Mike Cecil]

Keith said 'The info Mike has provided is about as much as is available - the AWM 126 series of vehicle registration records are pretty light on for detail unfortunately and usually only show the ARN, engine and chassis number, wheel size, body type, where taken on charge, sometimes engine number changes, and often disposal dates and where they were disposed and to whom." which is all true, of course.

When the ARN is not visible, the hard part is matching an engine or chassis number to the ARN - they are not in any particular order in the registers. This time, thanks to knowing 89134's details from previous posts, it made it easier, but that's mostly not the case. It's usually like looking for a needle in a haystack (and it is a very big haystack!) Beyond that, finding an individual history on a particular vehicle is almost impossible.

Your truck was also a 'Stores Unbinned', so a GS-type steel base body with hood bows and a cyclone-wire 'cage', all covered with a canvas canopy. Overall colour at time of issue would have been Khaki Green No.3 (Gas Resisting), possibly with a single or double disruptive colour applied, and since it continued to serve post-war, was probably overpainted (when it needed a paint job), with Deep Bronze Green with a gloss finish. Be nice to see a 'Stores Unbinned' restored as such.

Mike

[motto]

I can add nothing technical to the conversation but will pass on a story that may raise a chuckle.
I worked with a fellow who had been regular army for many years, everyone knew him as the sar major. On one occasion he was involved in a drive past in revue and he and several others were placed in the back of a truck inside a wire cage (sounds very much like a 'stores unbinned') As they drove past the saluting base some of the fellows hung from the wire and hooted like monkeys.
There was hell to pay after the parade.

David

[Mike Cecil]

Now that 'vision' gave me quite a chuckle! Good one Davo!

Mike

[Richard Seymour]

Thanks Hanno for the reorganisation.

Mike, I don't plan on doing a full restoration on it, but it does need some things attended to.

I do like the idea of putting some of the missing equipment back on it, like the tail gate, the canopy (now I know it should have one), the canvas doors and windows, etc.

[Matt Austin]

Ah, it all makes sense. Glad to see that Terry's Blitz has found a good home. All the best with it.

I put it to the Minister for War and Finance a year ago that it would've made a great investment but she told me to finish my Inter first! Wise words, really...

Fancy meeting up sometime? I reckon a catchup of all the local MV people would be good fun.

Cheers,
Matt