ANZAC or Anzac?

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler

Marine
a. a soldier in the Royal Marines
b. a soldier in the US Marine Corps

Of course, they won't see their respective military acronyms in dictionaries

I was wrong, Oxford lists RM and USMC, but Cambridge and Macmillan don't.

It's possible Oxford lists a few of the more commonly used military acronyms which remain current, like these two and NCO. For example they don't list ANZAC or AIF (except as Asociación Internacional de Fomento, which is part of the World Bank).

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler

I was wrong, Oxford lists RM and USMC, but Cambridge and Macmillan don't.

It's possible Oxford lists a few of the more commonly used military acronyms which remain current, like these two and NCO. For example they don't list ANZAC or AIF (except as Asociación Internacional de Fomento, which is part of the World Bank).

Tony,
My Oxford Concise dictionary lists Anzac (that is how it is written) and gives the pronunciation of it "aenzaek", listing it as a noun. The 1990 edition.

cheers Richard

[Tony Wheeler]

Richard, my post refers to the acronym, not the word.

[Marc Montgomery]

I've alway written it as ANZAC as an acronym. If one is a soldier member of the organization it would be " he is an ANZAC soldier"
in the same sense as we always say for example CSIS (Cdn Security Intelligence Service) as in "he is a former CSIS agent.
Without New Zealand,, would it would AAC? or Aac? New Zealand of course should always be capped NZ. like USA..... or how about USAAF..that could be "nouned" but no-one ever does it

I dont think it should be a noun.

Nazi would not be all caps as its not an acronym, but a short form.

Nazi by the way was originally a diminutive of the name Ignaz, (common in Bavaria and Austria) and evolved into a perjorative..as in dummy, or goof. Although it had been used ear
Naso was common in Germany, Konrad Hieden, a well known journalist before the war and Jewish..always used Nazi..knowing its perjorative origins...however it did catch on in Germany but not to the same extent in the rest of the world. I wouldnt be at all surprised if Churchill knew of its perjorative origins.

Communist regime post war, such as DDR. never used the full form "nationalsocialismus" because of a potential connection with their own 'socialismus" and so always used Nazi.

[Dianaa]

If we have Anzac does it also mean we have Cmp?

[Lang]

The use of ANZAC as an official acronym (as opposed to general unofficial usage at appropriate times when Australians and New Zealanders have fought together, such as Vietnam) was not restricted to WW1. When the disasterous WW2 Greek campaign got underway the acronym ANZAC was revived officially for the composite (short lived) formation.

As explained above, using the "word" ANZAC's to describe individual soldiers is clearly wrong. By putting an "s" on the acronym you are talking about both the Gallipoli formation and the Greek formation. The soldiers are described by the "word" Anzac's - clearly derived from the acronym but with an entirely different meaning. I am sure the Anzac biscuit is meant to be eaten by an Anzac soldier and not a supply item for an ANZAC Q Store.

Lang

[Keith Webb]

Originally Posted by Dianaa

If we have Anzac does it also mean we have Cmp?

Don't even go there!

[Lynn Eades]

Keith, Cmp? There are probably a few on here with Cardiomyopathy.

There are some clever buggers here....Unlike some people who make signs.

[Tony Wheeler]

We seem to be getting lost in semantics and linguistics here, partly my fault I suspect. Let's get back to the facts for a moment.

As we know, ANZAC is a military acronym, which stands for Australian and New Zealand Army Corps. Therefore when you celebrate 'ANZAC Day' you are celebrating the Australian and New Zealand Army Corps. That includes all the British and Indian Brigades and Divisions, and units of various other nationalities that formed part of ANZAC at one time or another. It does not include the AFC, the RAAF, the RAN, the RNZAF, the RNZN, the 2nd AIF, or the 2nd NZEF, except for the shortlived ANZAC formation during the '41 Greek campaign. Nor does it include Australians and New Zealanders who served in British or other national Armies, Navies, or Air Forces. Most obviously it does not include servicemen and women since WWII.

That's why we've always celebrated 'Anzac Day'. From the very beginning the word 'Anzac' was coined in reference to Australians and New Zealanders, irrespective of Command, and the word 'Anzac' retained currency after the two ANZAC Corps ceased to exist in 1917. It remains current today, and notwithstanding any trans-Tasman confusion that may exist, the rest of the world appears to be in little doubt as to its meaning, certainly if their English dictionaries are any guide:

UK. Oxford: Anzac (noun):
1. A soldier in the Australian an New Zealand Army Corps (1914-1918)
1.1 informal: A person from Australia or New Zealand, especially a member of the armed services.

USA. Merriam-Webster: Anzac (noun): a soldier from Australia or New Zealand

Thanks to this uniting word, we are able to celebrate Anzac Day as a commemoration and a tribute to ALL Australian and New Zealand servicemen and women, past and present, and express our desire to associate ourselves with the values they represent. These values we loosely define as 'the Anzac spirit', and we would like to think the Anzac spirit informs our national character both in Australia and New Zealand. We do not refer to it as the ANZAC spirit, or the RAAF spirit, or the RNZN spirit, because these terms are not all-embracing.

You'll find a brief summation of the Anzac spirit on the AWM website, including the origins of the word 'Anzac' itself, and I'd suggest it's required reading for this debate: http://www.awm.gov.au/encyclopedia/anzac/spirit.asp

Also worth noting are NZNWM guidelines for use of ANZAC or Anzac: "We recommend using the term 'ANZAC' with all capitals only when referring to the specific Corps. For all other uses 'Anzac' is preferred." http://www.mch.govt.nz/nz-identity-h...zac-guidelines

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Dianaa

If we have Anzac does it also mean we have Cmp?

No, you need some vowels if you want to make a word. Like they made jeep out of GP. That became beep for the Dodge so I guess we could make ceep for the CMP. Of course we're probably about 70 years too late, esp. in Australia where it's always been blitz. Not that we need a word for CMP, it rolls off the tongue pretty well.

[Lynn Eades]

Very good 2nd to last post Tony. Thank you for the logical reasoning.

[Lang]

Tony

Agree, your summation is very good and should put the argument to bed.

Lang