Family Appreciation Days – 31 May and 1 June 2014 - Ottawa

[maple_leaf_eh]

@Scott - don't confuse previous years and the story about insurance and waivers, and the posting I made for later this year.

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

@Scott - don't confuse previous years and the story about insurance and waivers, and the posting I made for later this year.

Terry, i'm curious about the previous year.

I was wondering if the previous invite was on the "Buds Net" or if it was an official request to attend, as some of those requirements don't make sense.

Either way, I think folks are getting the main purpose of these events cocked up. One is a pure MV event, the other is an appreciation event for families of CAF members. If you want to see HMV's, go to Oshawa. If you're a serving or retired CAF member and want to get your son or daughters face painted and have a hotdog, go to the CFSU(O) Family Day.

[Eric B]

Hello Stuart (and all).

Thanks for posting the details. I had deleted my e-mail with the details a while back.

I did attend the NDMC in 2012 with my GPW as did an 8cwt from the Swords and Ploughshares Museum. There were at least three DND vehicles present as well.
There were no wavers to sign, just vehicle insurance required. We were treated well and were provided a late lunch. That was unfortunate about the Iltis.

As most involved in the MV world we try and support as many events as possible. A DND Family Appreciation Day, Support Our Troops event, Veterans Week etc are all worthwhile causes. In my last posting i didn't mean to sound like the DND Family Appreciation Day was not worthwhile attending and do apologize if that was how it came across.

Those asked to attend the Family Day in the past were well aware that this was not an MV event.

If somebody with contacts with any of this years organizers would be kind enough to research more about what is required for private MV’s to participate in this year’s event, and then posting it. That would be appreciated as I know not everybody would be travelling to the Oshawa area that weekend.

Thanks

Eric

[chris vickery]

Sounds like taking a girl on a date and asking her to split the bill on the bill when dinner's over...
or invite your friends over for a dinner party and ask them to bring their own steak.

[Scott Bentley]

Gents,

The problem with events such as these is the funding and what type of funds can be spent on what. In the case of having private MV's attend an event; unless a contract is in place "hiring" the MV's for the event, public funds cannot be used to pay for fuel and oil. The simple act of providing a lunch is deemed as "hospitality" and requires permission from higher HQ's. This is all dictated by the Treasury Board, not the Canadian Armed Forces. With everything going on these days, you can imagine the appetite for bending these rules.

The only exception to the above is when the event is funded with non-public funds, ie Unit Funds and so forth. The problem with non-public funding is that it is extremely limited, especially for events that are held by non-Regimental organizations like CFSU(O) for example. They are limited to Canex grants and so on. Since you cannot use public funds to pay for anything at an event attended by civilians, it becomes a case of determining whether the MV owner gets his gas tank filled, there are free hot dogs, or the face painter gets paid.

The whole issue with waivers and insurance is a two way street. (Keep in mind, I'm not a lawyer or JAG, so don't run with this as gospel) The CAF doesn't want you getting hurt on their property, and doesn't want anyone else getting hurt (especially another civilian) by your privately owned vehicle on their property. If the event is an open one (ie a Family Day) the cause for concern and liability is even more concerning, which is why they want the MV owner or club to have sufficient insurance. If the owner or club is not contracted or some kind of MOU is in place, it becomes difficult to enforce proof of insurance or determining if rides or hands on the vehicles will be allowed. That being said, financial legalities aside, all of this is subject to a risk assessment and decision by the Commander (not the OPI). This is why I asked about the "Buds Net".

Unfortunately, this is also why it is theoretically easier for DND to line haul MVs from the museum in Petawawa for an event in Ottawa rather than get the local MV club to come out. They can use public funds, and don't need to collect waivers, or get proof of insurance.

I guess the point to all of this is that what was common place in the past may not be the same in the future, especially with the legal liability and financial accountability (into minutia) culture we live in.

I will bent my Brigade's JAG next time I see him for the specifics and update this post.

[chris vickery]

Typical government bureaucracy at work once again.
Spend taxpayers money at will instead of getting freebees from the same.
I can imagine the costs of transporting to and from museums plus the added costs of personnel, per diems and accommodations rather than the basically free cost of utilizing civilian volunteers and their vehicles...
In reality, most MV guys seldom ask for much, often fetting the bill out of pocket themselves for the pure enjoyment of proudly displaying their vehicle.
It makes sense to me more and more why many MV guys stick to themselves or stay below the radar rather than interact with formal groups or government institutions.
Furthermore, the boys down south (USA) seems to be able to handle these situations in a whole different manner to the benefit of the Public (taxpayer) at large and encourage participation from the Civilian populace without a lot of political nonsense and insurance obligations. Perhaps their way is a whole lot different than the way it is here. Sad.

[Scott Bentley]

Stuart, I'll leave you with this thought as my goal was not annoy people but rather to educate on how the system works, for good, bad or otherwise.

Although it seems expensive to haul kit around, staffs still cost money, and MOUs, contracts etc still require staffs, legal advisors and all sorts of churn to make things happen.

Having had to plan events similar in scope and scale to this one, sometimes there is only so much one can do, leaving you with enough time and resources to pluck the "low hanging fruit".

As you can see though, if the MV group is organized, a lot of this pain can be alleviated.