![]() |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
I assume a Dawn No.2 simply means a two ton capacity winch, which is what the 'Kit's Recovery' specified, along with 120 feet of 3/8 inch wire rope. (So is a Dawn No.5 a 5 ton capacity winch with, presumably, a heavier/thicker rope?)
The winch assembly and fitting was described in MGO Equipment Memorandum 13 of Sept 1944 - which I assume is what Ian is using as his main reference. The kits were manufactured by Ford Motor Company (there is more to the kit than the basic Dawn winch), with 230 kits ordered under CD-E8745. Problems were encountered in the supply of the correct diameter wire rope, which slowed delivery until a variation to design was authorized. Have never been able to find anything definitive on the number built, but judging from photo images, I'd guess not very many made it onto the front of jeeps. Mike C |
#2
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
TONY7516 - Copy.jpg TONY6179 - Copy - Copy.jpg
__________________
One of the original Australian CMP hunters. |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
So the pioneering spirit is dead then
![]()
__________________
Bluebell Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991 Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6. Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6 Jeep Mb #135668 So many questions.... |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Hi Guy's,
Another AWM picture and ......again Dawn winch mounted on a Ford Jeep! Obviously Fords were not quite as good as the Willys and needed the extra help ![]() Oh what can of worms I think I just opened ![]() On a serious note - I some how think the installation was easier on the Ford's due to the front cross member shape but I have no proof - it's just a hunch. Note also the front grille intact vertical bars. Regards, Brett.
__________________
Brett Nicholls Last edited by Brett Nicholls; 26-01-14 at 11:55. Reason: additional info |
#5
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
I can see now how the folding handle was stowed.
__________________
Richard 1943 Bedford QLD lorry - 1941 BSA WM20 m/cycle - 1943 Daimler Scout Car Mk2 Member of MVT, IMPS, MVG of NSW, KVE and AMVCS KVE President & KVE News Editor |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Brett, Re the "Can of Worms"
Maybe the Ford chassis was robust enough to handle the load? ![]() ![]() .......and it is a Ford because????
__________________
Bluebell Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991 Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6. Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6 Jeep Mb #135668 So many questions.... |
#7
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
More pics in THIS THREAD.
I'm trying to find to old "For sale" thread when I sold my Dawn Winch, and I think it was either Ian or Brett who ended up buying it. Was lots of pics in that listing. |
#8
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
TONY7518 - Copy.jpg For a proper installation we can calculate the handle force required from the gearing (24.5:1 reduction in low ratio) and the mechanical advantage provided by the crank handle radius (485mm for the Dawn handle) relative to the cable winding radius (approx 50 - 150mm depending on how much cable is wound on the drum). For a 2 ton lift this works out to between 19 and 57 lbs. A standard two gallon plastic bucket of water weighs 20 lbs, which means that for the first layer of cable on the drum you could lift 2 tons easily with only one hand, using only the force required to lift a bucket of water. Even with the drum fully wound you could comfortably exert 3 times that force using two hands. If you really put your back into it you could probably manage 100 lbs, which would lift 3.5 tons with the cable drum full, or 10 tons with the cable drum empty. For someone of my weight (approx 85 kg) you would only need to hang off the handle if you were lifting 7 tons with the cable drum full, or 20 tons if it were empty. Based on these calculations you could reasonably rate this winch at 3 tons, requiring 57 lbs handle force, ie. 3 buckets of water, with the cable drum half-full. We can perform a similar calculation for the Dawn No. 2 winch on the jeep. While it appears to be identical to my Dawn No.5 winch, closer inspection reveals it to be considerably smaller, the only common part being the pinion gear. As a double reduction winch the relative size of the larger gears indicates a ratio of around 16:1 on this unit, which being approx 2/3rds of the No.5 ratio would lead to a rating of 2 tons instead of 3 tons. Irrespective of any nominal rating it's the wrong choice for the jeep application in my view, being far too low geared. dawn-1 - Copy.jpg TONY7517 - Copy.jpg
__________________
One of the original Australian CMP hunters. |
#9
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
Having just seen this pic of the Dawn No.2 winch drum bare of cable I may need to reconsider, as the inner diameter appears to be considerably larger than the No.5 drum on which my calculations are based. This would improve the situation although I suspect it was still geared overly low for the required purpose. jeep0041.jpg
__________________
One of the original Australian CMP hunters. |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Not to detract from this thread, Tony, but what is the purpose of the metal boxes covering the front bumper mounting points? Never seen that setup before. Part of the winch kit perhaps?
David Last edited by David Dunlop; 27-01-14 at 03:42. |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
David, I would suggest a bumper extention as the winch mount sticks out forward of the bumper.
Interestingly this is a slat grill (first 10,000 and all of course were on Willys Chassis) That the guard is already damaged and that there is a sheet of mesh in front of the radiator. There is a hook on the front bumper, that I would guess is for a 2:1 pull. (rope eye back onto the Jeep?) I see also that the park light has been moved and that the bonnet is unbolted and sitting forward.
__________________
Bluebell Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991 Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6. Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6 Jeep Mb #135668 So many questions.... |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
This is an image of the early trials/test mounting. It was not how the design ended up. The extensions were indeed part of the early winch kit development, and because the test mounting protruded forward of the bumper.
The final mounting sat further back, and had a slat cut from the grill to accommodate this, as is visible in the early image posted on the thread, showing a jeep of the 24 Infantry Brigade HQ, 9th Infantry Division, with what looks like a Japanese officer in the back: possibly taking the surrender in British Borneo? Nice image. Mike C Last edited by Mike Cecil; 27-01-14 at 03:16. |
![]() |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
![]() |
||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Photos needed | servicepub (RIP) | WW2 Military History & Equipment | 74 | 11-01-20 22:19 |
Photos needed | David Dunlop | The Softskin Forum | 4 | 17-01-10 23:39 |
17-pdr photos needed | servicepub (RIP) | The Gun Park | 2 | 01-11-09 02:20 |
1/4 ton WW2 Trailer Photos Needed | pzrwest | The Softskin Forum | 2 | 29-06-09 12:59 |
original photos needed | cliff | The Softskin Forum | 0 | 19-01-07 23:34 |