Cold Start for C60S

[Phil Waterman]

Hi All

Well C60S Pat 13 cold start after sitting all night in below 0 F temperature, or -17 C in fact in the past 24 hours it has never gotten above -14C with 20MPH winds. I know that trucks don't feel wind chill but the people out working on them do with temperature -14C yesterday and today that means the Wind Chill for people was -25C that feels cold.

But let me back up yesterday as the storm rolled in I went out to do the first pass at plowing in my pickup. The plow was frozen into the ground and when I started to rock the truck I heard a loud bang followed by clunk clunk. Got out to look and as suspected the Universal joint on the front drive shaft had snapped. Next problem was it was snowing like mad and temperature was dropping only heated shop space to fix the plow truck was where Beauty sleeps away the winter in the shop. Had to drain the water system for the shower and hot water heater on the truck and remove the toilet so that Beauty could go out for the night.

Plow truck came in for the night to get warmed up and dried out from the snow that had already accumulated. In the morning went and got new universal joint. It took just under 2 hours to replace the universal.

Next came starting Beauty which now had sat out in the cold for 24 hours tried to start with 6V engine turned slowly but didn't catch. When I put the 261 cu.in engine in I was worried about starting so I installed switch to allow just the starter to get 12V from the radio/auxiliary battery. Flipped the switch and the engine turned a little faster but still didn't start. Went and got the battery charger to charge both the batteries for about an hour.

Hit the starter on the 12v and the engine spun to life. But the truck let me know that it thought it was cold steering, very stiff, transmission and transfer case hard to shift, even the brake booster was stiff. Gently move Beauty back into the heat shop and let it go back to sleep for the winter.

Of course all the oils and greases are summer weight so they are a bit stiff in these temperatures. But with a fresh charge on the battery the truck started I suspect that it would have started on the 6V if the battery had been warmed by charging for and hour before trying to start. Next time I'll know charge the battery for and hour before hitting the starter.

Cheers Phil

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Impressive! Both on the weather and how the Chev performs

H.

[lynx42]

Great photo Phil. Tee-shirt weather down here in sunny OZ. be about 25C today.

I couldn't live in that sort of cold. Hate that white stuff.

Good Luck to all in the USA and Canada who are experiencing such terrible weather at the moment.

Regards Rick.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by lynx42

Great photo Phil. Tee-shirt weather down here in sunny OZ. be about 25C today.

I couldn't live in that sort of cold. Hate that white stuff.

Good Luck to all in the USA and Canada who are experiencing such terrible weather at the moment.

Regards Rick.

Hi Rick,
High seas, gales and torrential rain in England. Flooding everywhere, the Hop Farm at Beltring was completely under water at Christmas, probably still is with what came down today.
At least we have not had any white stuff here this winter ....... so far.

[Bob Carriere]

3 or four days at -25C windchill at times near -38C

Hell the fuel lines in the 08 Ford gelled up and would not start.

Phil you got a good blast of cold air an snow.... I keep thinking of you as the storm lashed South of Ottawa headed for the coast and you neighbourhood

Apparently Spring is coming....

Stay warm.

Cheers

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Phil Waterman

I suspect that it would have started on the 6V if the battery had been warmed

No doubt about it Phil, and as you discovered there's no advantage in using a 12V battery if it's equally cold. This is explained by physics - low temp does not effect battery voltage, which is purely a function of the anode/cathode material (lead/lead oxide, nickel/cadmium, copper/zinc, etc). It does however reduce current available, by slowing the rate of chemical reaction at the plates. Hence at very low temps, even a fully charged 12V battery will deliver no more cranking current than a 6V battery (assuming they're the same size). This effect can be noticed after charging a car battery overnight on a concrete floor, even in our mild Australian winter.

The solution of course is to warm the battery as you say, and it's interesting to see it only took an hour on the charger in your case. Of course, this may not always be convenient - many times on cold mornings I've had to pour boiling water over sick batteries to get to work on time!

Anyway great photo and story Phil, I take my hat off to you guys who put up with sub-zero climates. Personally I would have chucked in the towel when the uni-joint blew and retired to the house to hibernate until Spring. Hell I even hibernate in winter here!

[motto (RIP)]

Looking forward to Corowa then Richard?

Dave

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by motto

Looking forward to Corowa then Richard?

Dave

Very much so, Dave The wet is getting me down. Ground saturated now and water running off everywhere.

[lynx42]

Originally Posted by Richard Farrant

Very much so, Dave The wet is getting me down. Ground saturated now and water running off everywhere.

Sounds like Corowa 2012, Richard.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by lynx42

Sounds like Corowa 2012, Richard.

Ha ha ........ I thought I was back home on that Friday!

[Phil Waterman]

Hi All

Well since I got Beauty back into the heated shop, she has been showing her displeasure at being left out side over night in a snow storm. She has been peeing all over the floor as the snow melts.

Amazing how many gallons of water had to be vacuumed up twice a day as the snow melted off the roof of the truck.

It has been so cold for the last several days (-23C overnight) that even though the air temperature in the shop never goes below 40F or 4C, that's as far as the thermostat will allow. The water coming off the truck is freezing on the floor around the out side walls. Frost is into the ground so hard that it is going in under the slab.

The funny thing is that the air is so dry that as soon as the standing water is vacuumed up the floor dries within about 15 minutes. The floor is both smooth and nearly dead level so water spreads out, guess the good thing is that in the process of vacuuming the water up I get the floor pretty clean.


Cheers Phil

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by lynx42

I couldn't live in that sort of cold. Hate that white stuff.

I watched a doco recently on the Battle of the Bulge, and something I found quite telling was that many who fought there found they had to move States after the war, because they suffered terrible flashbacks at the sight of snow. Adding to the misery of that battle was the fact they had not been issued their winter clothing, and one guy being interviewed said he moved to Florida specifically to avoid feeling cold again for the rest of his life. It made me think perhaps I should complain a bit less about the winter here!

[hrpearce]

The long range forecast for this area was a warmer than usual summer. Currently it is 16.9c in the house and 9c on the back veranda wall.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi All

First the shop floor is once again dry.

But last night we had freezing rain followed by these temperatures today

6AM -1C
10Am 14C
3pm 1C
Projected for tonight -15C

We will be holding a skating party in the door yard tomorrow when the water that fell last night and this morning freezes.

Cheers Phil

PS Just started snowing

[Little Jo]

Hi Phil

I have been following the weather you guys in the UK, Europe, USA and Canada are currently experiencing with great interest. When my family decided to immigrate from Holland in 1950 they only had 3 choices, South Africa, Canada and Australia. Australia came up first and that is where we settled. Just think I could have ended up with my but in the snow. I just heard on the news that parts of Western Australia will have temperatures of 50 degrees today, while here we are heading for 37 degrees by Friday.

All I can say is the world climate has gone mad, so I hope you all stay nice and warm and in Oz drink plenty of water and stay cool.

Cheers

Tony

[Phil Waterman]

Hi All

Do you remember winters and particularly the WIND CHILL being reported on the news when you were kids being much much colder than now?

The numbers reported 20 years ago were substantial colder, it is not global warming. They changed the system the original system for a wind speed of 20MPH at 5 F yielded a wind-chill of -31F the new system introduced in November 2001 yields a wind chill temperature of -15F. If you take this change into affect when they report record chill have the converted the old record under the old system to the new system.

I stumbled on the change when trying to convert Fahrenheit to Celsius, here is the link to the NOAA web page that explains the difference http://www.crh.noaa.gov/ddc/?n=windchill

Cheers Phil

PS Current Wind Chill Temperature here is -35C old system -26C new system

[BCA]

For 15 years I have been using a very tired M38 CDN as a snow plow. Ugly body, messy engine compartment, low compression, missing all the collectible jewelry sold off to dress up it's restored cousins. This jeep has no reason to keep running but I can start it up and plow to my hearts content at the lowest temperature. It sits in the farm field all summer, then starts right up when winter comes again. A great example of the jeep that would never let you down. A thing of legends.
Yet, so many of us have fully restored hobby vehicles that have trouble starting after a few days of sitting. How come? Brian

[motto (RIP)]

Perhaps it's because if the snow plough Jeep doesn't perform it's for the high jump whereas the show pony in the garage will just get some more TLC?

David

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Phil Waterman

The numbers reported 20 years ago were substantial colder, it is not global warming. They changed the system the original system for a wind speed of 20MPH at 5 F yielded a wind-chill of -31F the new system introduced in November 2001 yields a wind chill temperature of -15F. If you take this change into affect when they report record chill have the converted the old record under the old system to the new system.

Phil,
Just another ploy by the authorities to try and "sell" the idea that this is all down to Man and his fossil fuel burning ....... a lot of tosh, we are brighter than that.

[Phil Waterman]

Originally Posted by BCA

For 15 years I have been using a very tired M38 CDN as a snow plow. Ugly body, messy engine compartment, low compression...... This jeep has no reason to keep running but I can start it up and plow to my hearts content at the lowest temperature. It sits in the farm field all summer, then starts right up when winter comes again. ..... A thing of legends.
Yet, so many of us have fully restored hobby vehicles that have trouble starting after a few days of sitting. How come? Brian

Hi Brian

I think some of the reasons that some older engines (won't call the clunkers out of respect) will start fine and run in cold weather is there very age and the wear. All of the tolerances all through out the engine are large on the older "fully run in engines". As you point out they start and run may not put out quite as much power as a fresh engine, but they get the job done.

I would not want to try and start a freshly rebuilt engine that has been sitting in sub zero conditions. It would be an interesting test to do on a freshly rebuilt 216 vs one 216 with 20,000 on the odometer let them both sit in the cold and use a torque wrench instead of the crank to see just how many pound feet of torque it takes to just turn the crank the first bit.

My HUP and C60L are parked bumper to bumper in an unheated garage the HUP has probably 1500 miles on a fresh rebuild and the C60L has who knows how many miles. If I can get them far enough apart to get between them I might try this little experiment.

When I rebuild an engine I generally put them on the test stand for the initial run. One of the bits of my test stand is a really good coolant heater which is mounted very low so it gets a really good thermosyphon going which if I leave it plugged in over night will get a 216 Chevy up to about 120F. Engines seem to like this treatment and generally seem to start easier initially than engines that were just room temperature. Of course with a 216 priming the oil pump and system with a drill is also part of the game.

I think the other reason those old trucks who sit out in the weather will start in the dead of winter is self preservation they know that if they don't one of the reasons we keep them will be gone. Besides maybe they just like thumbing their noses at the trucks kept indoors.

Cheers Phil

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Phil Waterman

I think the other reason those old trucks who sit out in the weather will start in the dead of winter is self preservation they know that if they don't one of the reasons we keep them will be gone. Besides maybe they just like thumbing their noses at the trucks kept indoors.

How true!

I had a "cluncker" running for a 4-5 years with minimal maintenance, while out "main car" got all it's regular services (and then some...). The little Italian pulled a long nose to the noble Swede when it turned out to do basically the same job for a lot less effort. In the end it succumbed to the rust devil so I sold it. But a handy guy welded it up and it's still running...

H.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi All

Follow-up on cold weather starting for Chevy CMP after long cold soaking over the last few months (2). The HUP has been parked in an unheated garage. I put the battery charger on the HUP to warm the battery for an hour, the HUP has just over a 1000 miles on its full rebuild. Turned on the ignition let the electric fuel pump click away for a minute. Pulled the Choke all the way out and pulled the hand Throttle out 1/2. Pushed in the clutch with transmission into neutral hit the starter, engine turned over maybe two revolutions and coughed to life. Pushed in the choke half way, hand Throttle was set at a fast idle probably 800RPM, oil pressure came up fairly quickly. Oil in the engine is 30 weight.

Moved the truck out of the garage before the smoke/carbon monoxide detectors went off. Covered the radiator to aid in getting the engine up to temperature. This week we've had some warm weather up to 36F or 2.2C just enough to turn the top 2 inches of the our dirt driveway and the dirt road we live on to mud.

Once the engine was showing some warmth 100F took the truck for a slow drive down the driveway and out on to the dirt road. Kept the speed slow enough to not through mud up on the wheel wells. It is about 1/2 mile out to the paved road so I made several low speed trips in and out leaving lots and lots of non-directional tire tracks. Basically covering the drive and road with tire tracks.

Well the temperature went down again that night and it looks like it will not go above freezing for the next week at least. When I drove my car out the next morning it was like driving on rumble strips. Now two days later the road is still frozen and the tire tracks are still there.

Wonder what the neighbors think of the new road surface?

Cheers Phil

PS- With the radiator covered and the air temp just above freezing the engine came up to 160F when the thermostat opened then dropped 20 degrees and then cycled back up to 160F then gradually warming to about 200F and remaining constant through a couple of trips in and out. Wanted to run the engine long enough to really get all the oil and block up to vaporize and pull out of the engine and moisture.

[Tony Wheeler]

Nice work Phil, proving 6V battery more than adequate if warmed, as you suggested earlier wrt Beauty.

Of course I'm struggling with the concept of warming the motor up after working my F60S in 45C this week - it's already at operating temp without even running!