LSVW trailer question

[Marc Montgomery]

Just curious what the designation is for the trailer associated with the LSVW

These were built by DEW Engineering I think in the range of 1986-88 ( I think)

My understanding is its a metric trailer and not the same as the US 101 , 104 0r 105

from what Ive gathered its between a 3/4 ton and 1ton destination so again doesn't fit the US 3/4 t or 1.5t ratings

anyone have the dimensions?

[rob love]

There is no model number for them. They are simply "trailer, cargo 750kg" made by Dew Engineering in the late 90s. Much of the framework is similar to the old 3/4 ton trailer, but the body differs in that they are merely pressed and do not include the re-enforcing ribs of the old M101 series. They have the same surge master cylinder as the M101A2, with the identical master cylinder to the Willys jeep. The axle is a rubber torsion type.

The cargo box is identical in size to the old M101, and we used to transfer across things like security cages when they first came out.

[Marc Montgomery]

Boy who would have thought this would be so confusing..
Looking on a couple of sites (mostly American) there are variations in dimension for M-101, A1, A2 , A3.. M1101/2

and I ve just seen references to M-104CDN3, and on a govt site,M-104CDN4

(does this latter have 20in rims?) These latter ones in the photos ive seen (2) have a fixed pintle...ie one that would not allow twisting as does the M=100 and the iltis trailer. the 104CDN4 also seems to have a front folding tailgate, whereas the LSVW ones I've seen dont have the front option.

The LSVW ones im thinking of have the same 16in rims, apparently a surge brake, slightly bent pintle and Im looking for the correct dimensions, esp overall width

As the LSVW width is 2 metres, I suspect thats also the overall width of the trailer. ie 2m=78.5 in whereas Olive Drab puts the M-101 at 73,5

[Robin Craig]

Marc,

The LSVW trailers were all made under the watchful eye of Elvis at DEW. They had a bust of Elvis on the wall in one of the shops.

The panels were plated or chromated or some other such anti corrosion finish inside DEW. The panels were stitch or step welded together and did not have continuous welds, there was a seam sealer used in between the welds.

The wheels and tyres are the same as the LSVW from what I recall.

The one main identifying feature of the trailers is that they have a transverse stowage box across the A frame draw bar just in front of the box of the trailer itself.

In my collection of photos, deeply buried still, is a complete set of shots of the whole production line process of them being built. DEW granted me access with DND consent to record their manufacture.

It will be a number of years yet before I can unearth them.

R

[Marc Montgomery]

indeed Robin.
I suspect the M104Cdn3 and 4 were slightly larger and made for the 2.5 ton trucks.
possibly with 20in tyres. The Cdn4 at least has the vertical reinforcing ribs the Rob Love was mentioning were missing on these ones

The ones you correctly show have the stowage box as standard and use the LSVW wheels and appear to match the overall 2m width of the truck (78.5in) but maybe the inside dimensions are the 73-in of the orig M-101 the Rob mentioned^

Was the production line at Miramichi NB? When was this? Ive heard of build dates of 1987-88

Has anyone bought one? I'd be interested as to what the data plate says.

[Ed Storey]

This is not the best image, but it does show what is on the trailer's data plate. I have seen this trailer listed as DEW CDN1 ECC 132501.

[Marc Montgomery]

thanks ed, so it does have a designation..of sorts..
interesting in french its "modele militaire" and in english "smp"
Would that be "standar mil pattern, or "special mil pattern" or ??
and would you know what ECC means?

Am I missing a build date on this?

[rob love]

ECC is Equipment Configuration code. There would be a basic number for a class of trailer/vehicle and a slightly different number for each official variation of the trailer. ie: If it was a cargo, or had a mounted welder, or a generator, they could have a different code.

I see you are mixing up the 1-1/2 ton trailers with the 750kg trailers. All of the M104 series were made for the 2-1/2 ton and larger SMP trucks like 5 tons in the old days, and the HLVW in the new days.. The original ones in Cdn service dated from the late 50s/early 60s. These were replaced with new ones in the early 80s, and another batch in the late 80s. That was where the Cdn3 etc came form. They did not differ a lot from the early M104 trailers. There were little things like the large M-series lighting, and the vinyl tarps. The main difference was the front landing gear. The 50s/60s trailers had a single big Fred Flinstone wheel for the landing leg that had to be manually raised and lowered. The new versions had two varieties of landing leg. First was the Fred Flinstone wheel with a jack attachment to raise it in it's hinge. The second version had smaller dual landing wheels which had a jack built in to raise and lower, and the whole assembly would hinge. The early 80s trailer was made (IIRC) by Manac, and the late 80s trialers were made by DEW. There were a few basic variants, including Cargo, water tank, and kitchen. I believe there were also some fuel tankers, although most of those I saw were on dual wheeled 2 ton trailers.

With regard to swivelling pintles: For each truck/trailer combination either the towing truck or the trailer would swivel. In the case of the 1/4 ton trailers it was the Jeep/Iltis that was fixed, and the trailer would swivel. With the 3/4 ton/5/4 ton/LSVW fleet, it was the truck that swivelled and the trailers that were stationary. With the MLVW and up, it was the saem...truck would swivel and the trailer was stationary.

Sometimes you would see trailers being towed by the wrong class. This could lead to problems either with a combination that had no swivel, or else a combination where both could swivel. If there was no swivel, then the cross country stress could damage the trailer or truck frame. With both swivelling, the pintle could rotate upside down, which was not ideal either.

[Robin Craig]

Marc,

The trailers were made in Ottawa, for the entire production run, as far as I know.

In those days I lived not too far from DEW and seemed to accidentally be past there on a regular basis.

I did at the time take a lot of 35mm colour slides along with my then best mate (now deceased) Andy Graham. The pair of us were shutterbugs with long lenses taking pictures of many things all the time.

The LSVWs themselves came into Ottawa on flat cars as chassis cabs directly from Kelowna and were started and driven over to the DEW shops to get the refurbished SEV bodies put on them, but thats another story.

Anyhow, back to the trailers, there was some horrible fight between DEW and the Crown over the corrosion protection and the seam sealing as the sealer fell out after painting. Someone got screwed somewhere im thinking.

The trailers will suffer the same problems of lamination based corrosion over time.

If the Crown spent a bit of money just building car port style covered parking for their MV fleets and got them just under cover they would have such a better return on their investment. I know our farm machinery fairs so much better just under a roof with no sides.

My lady, new to the MV scene, has only just started to appreciate how many days of a year the average MV sits vs being used after we pass through a local base and see the same vehicles in the same place month after month.

If only common sense ruled the world.

Off to plow snow, again.


R

[rob love]

Re: Carports. The federal government cannot put up an inexpensive building....can't be done. We had a bunch of pole sheds recently built here in Shilo. No electricity or lighting in them....as soon as you string a light they would require fire sprinklers. In order to have fire sprinklers you will require heat. In order to have heat you now have to build the shed as an insulated building. You can see where this is going.

You will see a lot more stationary vehicles in the next couple years as the DND mothballs up to 50% of it's SMP fleet as a cost cutting measure.

[Robin Craig]

Marc and others

While not to do with these trailers but the bigger older ones, the Maker's name on some is Manac if you spell it backwards it is Canam. They make many structural steel items like bar roof trusses and the like. Same folks just a different division.

R

[rob love]

Robin: Interesting...I did not know that. It would appear that Manac trailer was the original company and it acquired canam steel in 72. It would also seem they have thinned out their Cdn trailer production and have acquired US plants. They now manufacture many of their trailers in the South.

Here is a link to the companies history: http://www.manac.ca/about-us/

[Marc Montgomery]

So if I understand correctly
The Cdn Forces have in their inventory M-104CDN3, and M-104CDN4, and the slightly smaller metric trailers Im thinking of , "Trailer Cargo 850kg SMP CDN1"

Curious though, many of these SMP CDN1 have been released for sale with little to almost zero apparent usage...I presume there are many still on strength, but why release several in almost NOS condition?

Meanwhile, in many places around the world vehicles are parked under simple pole structures with rounded corrugated tin rooves...Protection from the sun in some cases , and precipitation in others.

Shame we should do that here but cant for reasons Robin and Rob L mention

[Robin Craig]

Where do you draw your evidence that any of the LSVW trailers have been sold as surplus?

R

[Ed Storey]

There have been a some DEW CDN1 Trailers ECC 132501 that have been disposed of.

[Robin Craig]

Dear Ed,

Through what process were they sold?

They don't show up from last summer to now through PWGSC disposal site when searched.

R

[Ed Storey]

I don't know anything about the disposal process.

[Marc Montgomery]

During my search for info came across an offroader site where one guy bought a very new looking one (photos he posted sure agreed with statement) and said there were several others sold that also looked as if they had not been used,
It was a govt sale out of Montreal and in 2011.

[Marc Montgomery]

This thread was originally back in 2003...since then, a few years ago, I was able to buy one of these 750kg LSVW trailers...in exc condition.
Have towed it several times behind my minivan- loaded, but not heavily loaded. from Montreal to kingston and back....It's size is an advantage for carrying certain things too big for the 1.4 t trailers. Actually tows fairly easily.


What I need now are the rubber stretch cords. The originals are weather worn (air pollution?) and breaking..
I believe these are 7mm (?) I've looked online and while there are 7mm rubber cords for sale- they are listed as for " beading craft necklace"....so although it looks like the same stuff , the description leaves doubt..
Anyone know of a source for this rubber?

[rob love]

The Americans use the same rubber cording on their trailers. I bought it by the yard from one of the vendors at a MVPA convention. Iltis trailer also used the same cording.

https://www.eriksmilitarysurplus.com/rucorforcaco.html

[Marc Montgomery]

Excellent... thanks for the link Rob!


However, I had about 25 ilitis 1/4 t covers at one time, still have four, two on trailers and two spare.. All but one used heavier (thicker) cord...maybe 8mm? (never measured it so its a guess but certainly thicker and would simply not fit through the holes in the SMP trailer tarp.



On the LSVW DEW trailers, the cord is thinner.. 7mm (possibly US 1/4 inch?),



I will email the vendor you suggested, but I wish there was a Canadian supplier..Wonder where the CF buys their replacement cord from as these trailers are still in service and the cord does get eaten eventually by UV and pollution.

[rob love]

I'll check the numbers at work and see if we are using US stuff. Often, if the stuff is of US origin, the source of supply is Colog (Cooperative logistics). That is a supply organization in the US that sells to the army, navy, airforce, marines, and friendly foreign governments.

If you google the part number on the link I sent (8742135) it should have the diameter given. Actually, by what I can see, it appears to be .785 diameter. Edited to add: It would appear that this number is for the old manila rope. It is mentioned on Erik's site that this cord is for the tarps with the 4 holes on the end. Pretty sure this will be the right stuff.

As far as I know, the majority of our tarps are also of US origin.

[rob love]

The thickness given for the LSVW trailer is 8mm. While the NSN given is of Cdn origin, the manufacturer is given as GMA, who make the majority (if not all) of the tarps for Canada. They are US based however.

[Marc Montgomery]

hmm. .785 as a fraction is huge...like 3/4 in? or am I missing something (distinct possibility)


also when I googled that number I get a long NSN number showing twisted hemp rope. Could it be that the number is simply Erik Mil Supply company stock number?




Your help BTW is greatly appreciated !

[dan clements]

hey Marc
are you still around, I am looking for someone to chat about the DEW trailer