MTB Base in Montreal???...

[Marc Montgomery]

Well Rob, youre one of those very few. Again, almost no one knows that two of the biggest munitions plants were near montreal...
One north of the city called "le Plan Bouchard"...a huge operation..now a subdivision..although when I was last there, there were still traces left in the brush where the development hadnt reached..shown in the Convoy Mag

Again in an old Convoy mag there are before and after photos.

Montreal and surrounding area during the war years was a very major supplier..from buiding Canso amphibs, to clothing and webbing, MTBs, tanks, planes, radio equip... you name it.

[Robert Bergeron]

Hey Mark,

My father served at Camp Bouchard after the war and he had fond memories of the courses he attended there. He used to fly to Camp Bouchard in a RCAF DC3 from Sherbrooke. They landed in Cartierville airport now closed and then boarded a Jeep or other transport to Camp Bouchard.

I regularly overfly Camp Bouchard by plane ( my Cessna) and chopper ( Griffon today's RCAF ) and there are numerous remaining buildings and ammunition bunkers . Next door there is a testing oval racetrack were there were safety trials of cars by Transport Canada that is still being used by someone .

There are still munitions plants in Montréal. Grenades , ammunition , and other misc are made . Don't forget that the country's largest military depot is in Longue Pointe.. , Montréal. For example ,there a more Leopard tanks in Longue Pointe than anywere else in Canada. Recently ( in the last years ) a lot of 1000' s of Inglis High Power 9mm pistols were drawn from stores in Longue Pointe for service in a Far East country i will not name . Brand new in the box never fired dated from 1945 . From first hand experience they shoot very well.

Montréal's economy is still very much military oriented. From F-18 refurbishment, to F16/ 18 landing gear manufacture , Simulators , comms, sofware etc....amongst other things.


Cheers !

[Marc Montgomery]

oh...to get one of those inglis....sigh..

hey where do fly your cesnna from? gimme a call I'll go with you! I have like 4 hours in 172.

[maple_leaf_eh]

I can attest that the CF periodically dips into the War Reserves of Brownings. In 1990, I saw an absolutely perfect Lend Lease decal model example issued for the Gulf War. Similarly, I drew a very nice pistol to carry in Afghanistan.

When the CF stopped giving out WWII Inglis marked magazines, and went out to contract with batches of new European-made magazine, almost all the feed and reliability problems went away. As long as the gun has oil on the rails, it worked.

[Robert Bergeron]

Hey Mark ,

I fly out of CYSG ( Saint-Georges ) airport, but i can pick you up at any public airport within a 300 NM radius Mark ! We could go 25 pounder or Sherman hunting together.I heard a story there is a Sherman standing in what used to be a field in... but is now grown over with trees , we could go on a recce to find it next summer !

Terry,

two years ago at my annual 9mm qualification in Farnham, i had an Inglis pistol with Chinese markings ( the Chinese contract by gosh ) ! Three years ago, in Laval at the indoor range of the 4R22 th armoury , the butt of the pistol i was firing also had the remnants of the Made in Canada decal : English, Chinese, Russian ! true, with the new magazines , no more feeding issues.

Bang-Bang

[Grant Bowker]

Originally Posted by Robert Bergeron

heard a story there is a Sherman standing in what used to be a field in... but is now grown over with trees , we could go on a recce to find it next summer !

I suggest early spring or late fall might be better than summer or winter - try to catch it without either leaves or snow to hide what you are looking for.

[Robert Bergeron]

Thanks Grant excellent observation/ sugestion.

Anyone out there have info on that elusive Québec Sherman ?

Am i starting an urban legend here ?

That would be quite a find. My idea is that it was employed for target practice . Like the Centurion's we had in Gagetown on the Air/ Ground range.

I remember firing the .50 cal on my APC turret mount at what ressembled Centurion hulls from 1500 yards . The tracer rounds hit the hull and deflected at right angles. Quite a sight ! Last time i was on that range , the grass was so dry , we started grass fires every time .

That-kachink-that-kachink -that-cachink (typical .50 cal sounds, round firing and spent case extracting )

[Dan Martel]

Originally Posted by Robert Bergeron

There are still munitions plants in Montréal. Grenades , trip flares , C7/ C9 ammunition , and other misc are made.

Robert,

I've always thought that all of our munitions were made at Valcartier. Has this changed and is IVI closed?

Whereabouts in Montreal is all this ordnance being made?

Cheers,
Dan.

[Robert Bergeron]

my friend,

IVI or Industries Valcartier was bought out by SNC/ Lavalin a while back. In turn SNC/ Lavilin sold to General Dynamics the defense supply giant. The plant in Valcartier is closed. In the Montréal area there was a Crown Corporadtion Canadian Arsenals making all kinds of ammunition/explosives also bought out by SNC/Lavailin and in turn by General Dynamics. Their plants are in Le Guardeur, Saint Augustin de Desmaures, Nicolet and Valleyfield. GD ( General Dynamics ) is the sole supplier of ammunition to the Canadian Armed forces. The plant in Le Guardeur made amongst other things torpedoes during WW2 . Until 1995 or so they made anti personel landmines . The Ottawa treaty on mine warfare put an end to that.

[Marc Montgomery]

To my knowledge, Canada still has AP mines and can use them. (perhaps no longer Cdn made?)
. BUT they can only be deployed and activated in situations where visual obs can confirm enemy activity ..and i believe, manually operated....and not the typical left in the ground indiscriminately activated mines.

can someone confirm- deny

[Dan Martel]

Since part of this thread delved off into the production of munitions in Canada, I thought I'd share a part of an article I'd recently found on Canadian Arsenals Ltd. It appeared in the July, 1952, edition of the RCEME Quarterly and was written by FB Strong of CAL. I won't repeat the entire article verbatim, but I thought that those paragraphs detailing the facilities then in operation would add to the conversation.

While Canadian Arsenals Limited was only established as a crown company in 1945, the production history of one of its six major divisions, Dominion Arsenals Division at Quebec City, goes back over 70 years. Another, Gun Ammunition Division at Lindsay, Ontario, dates back to World War 1.

The manufacture of ammunition in Quebec was started about the end of the 17th century, probably in the days of Le Sieur de Frontenac. Plans for a Canadian arsenal were not formulated, however, until 1879 and in October 1882 seventy machines came into operation with staff of a dozen employees. Such was the formal beginning of Dominion Arsenal.

At the outbreak of war in 1939 it was the only government-owned munitions factory and was administered directly by the army.

Today the Dominion Arsenal Division consists of two plants, the Palace Hill plant in Quebec City and the Val Rose plant at Valcartier. The former is equipped for the manufacture of cartridge cases, primers, and other miscellaneous ammunition stores, such as metal components for small arms ammunition, igniters, and cartridge clips. The Val Rose plant is set up for the manufacture of all types of small arms ammunition. A third plant is being converted from an existing factory at Quebec City to provide additional facilities for the manufacture of cartridge cases. This plant will be known as the Louise Basin plant and will be controlled by Dominion Arsenal Division.

Small Arms Division at Long Branch, Ont, consists of the former government-owned Small Arms Limited plant, and is equipped to manufacture or repair all small arms up to 30 mm calibre, together with their ancillary equipment. This covers such personal weapons as rifles, machine carbines, pistols, revolvers, automatic machine guns, light, medium or heavy.

The Filling Division at St Paul l'Ermite Quebec (formerly the government-owned plant of Defence Industries Limited) has facilities for the filling and assembling of shells, cartridge cases, fuzes, primers, tracers, mines, bombs, grenandes and other specialties. Production of pyrothechnic stores is limited to those types which cannot be undertaken by commercial facilities. Standby equipment is available for filling such stores as depth charges, hedgehogs, and torpedo war-heads. It is also possible to carry out experimental production and to make standard tests on fuzes, bombs, primers, tracers, caps, and detonators.

Gun Ammunition Division at Lindsay Ont has facilities for the development and manufacture of gun ammunition metal components, including shells, tracers, fuzes and other machined components and assemblies for 20 mm to 5.5-in guns inclusive, as well as mines, bombs and grenades.

The Explosives Division consists of five sections of which two, those at De Salaberry and Shawinigan, have been rehabilitated as part of the current defence production program. Defence Industries (1951) Limited, the wartime operator of these facilities, was engaged to carry out the rehabilitation and operation of these plants to the extent required.

The De Salaberry Works at Valleyfield covers some 1,800 acres and is producing smokeless powder (rifle and cannon), RDX and its various compositions. Facilities for producing cordite are being adapted to produce flashless powder. During the war this plant also produced trinitrotoluol (TNT), dinitrotouol, and tetryl. Production will be starting shortly on intermediates such as nitric acid and nitrocellulose.

The Hexachlorethane Works at Shawinigan Falls is actively producing this smoke generating chemical in fulfillment of current orders.

The article doesn't mention the locations of the remaining three sections of the Explosives Division. Can anyone fill this in?

The sixth and final Division of CAL was the Instrument and Radar Division at Leaside (now Toronto). It didn't produce munitions but did manufacture precision instruments and opticals. It was the follow-on to the wartime Research Enterprises Limited. The Leaside plant was being augmented by a new $2.5 million dollar plant in Scarborough (also now Toronto).

I think, but am not sure, that St Paul l'Ermite is now a part of Repentigny, a suburb north-east of Montreal.

Long Branch, at least that part that contained the Small Arms Division, is now Mississauga.

There's no mention of the manufacture of artillery at Sorel. Was this not undertaken until after 1952 or part of a completely different organization?

Cheers,
Dan.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Marc Montgomery

To my knowledge, Canada still has AP mines and can use them. (perhaps no longer Cdn made?)
. BUT they can only be deployed and activated in situations where visual obs can confirm enemy activity ..and i believe, manually operated....and not the typical left in the ground indiscriminately activated mines.

can someone confirm- deny

Early in the Afghan war there was a news story about the camp defences in Kabul. Somehow the presence of "mines" was mentioned. I was working in HQ in Ottawa at the time, and watched a CANSOF major speak very directly to a full colonel or BGen about this. He was responsible for those defences when the story was based. There were no AP landmines. There were however, command detonated defensive mines. The use of Claymores hit the news for real when a soldier was killed on a badly run range.

2-12-2010; Baker, Joshua Caleb Corporal; 24; The Loyal Edmonton Regiment (4th Battalion Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry); Canadian Army; Alberta; Edmonton; Non-hostile - explosion (claymore mine); Kandahar; Afghanistan

http://www.icasualties.org/OEF/Natio...?hndQry=Canada

[Robert Bergeron]

Quote :
In an incident known as the C-19 incident near former Camp Nathan Smith in Afg. two canadian officers and a Warrant officer have been found and / or pleaded guilty to dereliction of duty after an incident during a firing range where the C-19 amoungst many other weapons were used.A private, untrained in the handling of the C-19 had placed the unfamiliar weapon backwards , thus firing in the direction of friendly personnel.The death of Corporal Baker was immediate.Many others were injured.

End of quote .

We must not forget the men and women who have sacrificed everything for their country.

Lest we forget.

Robert