Carriers in U.S. Service

[Roddy de Normann]

Hanno et al

Ref the pic of the US Carrier with the no. 92843 USA...could this number be the UK census number at the time of building ? The number fits Ford Contract S/M 1131 for Universial Carriers...

Just a thought !

Roddy

[Big D]

Hi all,

I was in Honiara last year with RAMSI and I checked this carrier out. It is at the Betekama Museum/mission.

From what I recall the data plates were gone and unfortunately I didn't check out the rear bulkhead as Tony said. The thing is full of 155mm or similar sized barrels and I was a bit reluctant to go climbing into it.

As Tony also said the tracks on the Australian carriers and NZ carriers are fitted in different directions. The tracks on this carrier are fitted in the same direction as my Australian LP2A carrier. That is, looking at the front of this carrier, the centre strip of the steel track is lower than the strips on the outside, giving a 'V' shape to the track profile. I think I'm right when I say the NZ carriers have the tracks around the other way and the profile of the track is almost like an inverted 'V'.

If you look at the tracks of the carrier in the picture that Lynn sent to Jeff, they have the 'V' shape looking from the rear, so when viewed from the front will give the inverted 'V' appearance, which is what I'd expect from a NZ carrier.

Not sure if I am making sense there, but hopefully so.... and that's assuming the tracks on this one haven't been removed and refitted, and that my Australian one is correct!

I'll see if I can find some more photos of this carrier that I took.

[Rob Beale]

NZ had a brigade on New Caledonia in the mid war, and another on Fiji. They took their carrier platoons there including LP2 NZ and English 3" Mortar carriers. These were all returned to NZ.

After the soul searching following the simultaneous Japanese attacks on Pearl Harbour, Hong Kong and Malaya, NZ agreed to leave the 2 NZ Division in North Africa while USA agreed to send troops to NZ to help defend NZ, and also complete their training here.

1 Div USMC had only 6 weeks in NZ before racing to take Guadalcanal in the Solomons before the Japanese completed the new airfield there. 2 Div USMC landed there too, and it took six months to finally subdue the Japanese who were reinforced by sea almost nightly!

The two NZ brigades were withdrawn to NZ and formed the 3 NZ Div who then moved to Guadalcanal and trained in amphibious warfare. Three brigade level actions followed with the capture of Japanese held Vella Lavella, Mono Island and Green Islands.
By this time the carriers had been left on Guadalcanal and the carrier platoons worked on foot.

The garrisons on Fiji and New Caledonia were replaced by US troops.

(We have just commemorated the 2 Marine Div practice landings at Mahia NZ in 1943 prior to the Tarawa landings, so I did a lot of research on USMC and NZ ops in the Pacific!)

Rob

[Lynn Eades]

Rob, and Darryl, don't the Aussie carriers have the I.D. plate above the instrument panel, and the Kiwi ones are on the right front guard? (where are the holes?)
It must be easy enough to identify an Aussie build or a Kiwi build without relying on the way the track is fitted.
I'm more knowledgeable about riveted carriers, than welded ones. Correct me if I have that wrong.
Richard, the story of the sub sounds interesting.
What Rob means by "we have just commemorated" is that he organised the event, so, Rob, How about a run down on the "Marines at Mahia" event?

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Richard, the story of the sub sounds interesting.

Hi Lynne,
I don't want to hijack this thread, but the information about Free French being supplied with 10 of the NZ Carriers, and the fact that the hull for sale in Belgium is from Tahiti, led me to find out about a French submarine under the control of Free French met its demise on it way to Tahiti. The Surcouf, read its story here;
http://www.militaryfactory.com/ships...id=Surcouf-NN3
I did read another site saying there was speculation that it might have been targeted by a US bomber as there was claim to have hit a sub within the time it went missing and no other sub was known to be in the area.
Think this should be on a new thread maybe.

regards, Richard

[Big D]

Hi all,

Here are a few more pictures of the Honiara carrier. They are not great I'm afraid.

Lynn-I'm fairly sure all the aussie carriers have the data plate on the right front guard as well. Mine certainly does and it is a Metropolitan Gas Works manufactured one. Perhaps some of the other aussie carrier owners can confirm.

At the time I thought the NZ carriers had the data plate in the same place and I figured this might have been one reason why the guard on the Honiara carrier was gone.

While in Honiara I spoke to an ex-pat aussie living there who had set up a museum of sorts with all sorts of artifacts he had recovered from the jungle with the help of the locals. They included a Willys jeep, M2A1 Stuart tank complete with a 37mm hole in the hull when it was knocked out, (the very early one), Japanese field guns and anti tank guns, Zero engines, Japanese MG's and all sorts of other battlefield pickups.

He said he had located another carrier in the jungle that he hoped to pull out at some stage. He hinted that logistically it was a bit difficult to get to though. I was amazed at what is still being found there with a steady stream of local people coming into see him with battlefield pickups that he was paying them for.

If anyone is interested I could post the pictures on a seperate thread.

I can't seem to reduce the size of the last picture so if it is too big let me know and I'll delete it!









http://imageshack.us/a/img32/5638/bcy.JPG

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Big D

I can't seem to reduce the size of the last picture so if it is too big let me know and I'll delete it!

http://imageshack.us/a/img32/5638/bcy.JPG

Darryl,

No problem, I've reduced it to a link rather than an image, so interested members can click on it.

Please attach the pictures to your post also, as experience learns us that over time the external links to sites like imageshack etc. will disappear.

Thank you!

Hanno
MLU Administrator

[Dianaa]

Originally Posted by Richard Farrant

...
I did read another site saying there was speculation that it might have been targeted by a US bomber as there was claim to have hit a sub within the time it went missing and no other sub was known to be in the area.
Think this should be on a new thread maybe.

regards, Richard

Hi Richard

To continue with your hyjack, how can anyone even consider that one of the Allies could have been subject of friendly fire from our confederates the USofA?

My WWI veteran grandfather is reputed to have said the most dangerous place on the battlefield was being next to the Yanks! As happened to him in the 1918 Battle of Hamel under Sir John Monash.

[Andrew Rowe]

Hi Guys, I will add my 2cents worth. NZ carriers hull build numbers were stamped on the front top of the Right hand towing eye and this number will possibly only go as high as 1210. Sometimes the " T " number is on the Left hand side towing eye top. This is true for the later LP2A's.
The early LP2 number is stamped on the middle towing Eye, sometimes you need to rub the area with a little sandpaper and it shows up.If anybody is handy to this one in the islands it would be nice to know the numbers as I have a bit of a registar of NZ carrier numbers here in NZ. So it usually does not matter whether the mudguards have rusted off or the data plate is gone , we still can trace it manufacture.

[Rob Beale]

The centre eye would be stamped near its upper edge.
If no centre eye, then check the top edge of the two lifting eyes

The track direction could be reversed by anyone at any time, as I am sure a few have fitted them the other way round without knowing it! The track has lead plugs so it could be either Kiwi or Oz production. Some Kiwi track was made in America, with rivetted pins, with the wide spaced wheel guides.

If the Guadalcanal carrier is from NZ wartime stocks, it may be an LP2, either early production Vickers armed, or mid production with Bren adaptor.
The ammo box mounts on the left front guard may give a clue, or their tapping blocks / weld marks.

The hull does not seem to have the radio cover brackets, and the hull rear upper plate seems to have no bracket on the left side, but possibly a MG mount on the right, but it isn't clear.

Darryl, can you get your colleagues to photograph inside the hull please?
Gunners side guard and rear upper plate in particular.

Rob

[Big D]

Hi all,

I have been talking to one of my colleagues who is currently in Honiara. He is going to photograph the carrier in question.

This is what I’ve given him from the previous posts. He is not a military vehicle person though and I so I doctored a few photographs as well with a few arrows on where to look which I thought might help him.

I am not real familiar with NZ carriers. Mine is an aussie one and I am aware there are some differences. Can the NZ carrier experts please check this out and see if I am pointing him in the right direction?

• Inside the hull especially on the rear upper plate – the hull number is often stamped in the bulkhead above the rear differential
• front top of the right hand towing eye(looking for a number like 1210)
• left hand side of the towing eye top. Sometimes the " T " number is on the Left hand side towing eye top
• Middle towing eye. There is a number here usually stamped near its upper edge. If no centre eye, then check the top edge of the two lifting eyes.
• The ammo box mounts (weld marks) on the right front guard (looking from the front)

[motto]

Good morning Darryl.
Some knowledgable contributor will no doubt answer your questions which are outside my area of familiarity.
I just wanted to comment on the jerrycans in the photo which I've only noticed on this occasion. They are all of the hybrid variety being of American type 'jam tin' construction but with the German style cam lock spout. These cans seem to have been exclusive to the USMC or maybe the SW Pacific and I've not encountered one in real life. Definitely a better proposition than the screw cap in my opinion and I wonder why they didn't standardise on them.
Apologies for the interjection but it aroused my curiosity.

Happy New Year to all.

David

[lynx42]

Originally Posted by Big D

Hi all,

I have been talking to one of my colleagues who is currently in Honiara. He is going to photograph the carrier in question.

This is what I’ve given him from the previous posts. He is not a military vehicle person though and I so I doctored a few photographs as well with a few arrows on where to look which I thought might help him.

I am not real familiar with NZ carriers. Mine is an aussie one and I am aware there are some differences. Can the NZ carrier experts please check this out and see if I am pointing him in the right direction?

• Inside the hull especially on the rear upper plate – the hull number is often stamped in the bulkhead above the rear differential
• front top of the right hand towing eye(looking for a number like 1210)
• left hand side of the towing eye top. Sometimes the " T " number is on the Left hand side towing eye top
• Middle towing eye. There is a number here usually stamped near its upper edge. If no centre eye, then check the top edge of the two lifting eyes.
• The ammo box mounts (weld marks) on the right front guard (looking from the front)

Hi Darryl,

The arrow in the first photo is pointing to the back plate. This is wrong, it should be pointing to the angle-iron immediately above the diff mounting bolts immediately behind the coupling, where the brake pipe is. This piece is never cut out of the back plate in any cut down carrier as it serves to help locate the diff assembly. The details for all Australian carriers are stamped on the top of the horizontal section of the angle-iron and generally a good sand down will reveal the maker, type of carrier and the carrier number. I don't know about the NZ or British carriers.

Good Luck & all the best for the festive season.

Rick.

[Michael Reylock]

Hi, I’m a little late in the game here but I own an Aussie carrier here in the US. As does my friend. We know of 2 other Aussie carriers as well. On in LA and one is Southern California owned by a crazy man. All carriers are within 50 serial #s of each other made by SAR. rumor was that they were at a depot near Sacramento California before being auctioned off.

[dcrfan]

I have just purchased this book.
49063224566_2799c979e2_h.jpg
IMG_3460 by tankienz, on Flickr

It was published in July 1944 following a visit to Guadalcanal by two members of the NZ National Film Unit who visited to shoot footage for newsreels. They also took stills.

The book includes this photo of LP2 in US service which I have not previously seen.

49139817478_e258a9caf8_k.jpg
IMG_3476 by tankienz, on Flickr

Note the two colour camouflage and the number 2610 on the closest Carrier and what appears to be 2601 on the back Carrier. Unfortunately the book was published on newsprint quality paper so the photos are not clear. As NZ did not build 2600 LP2s I'm not sure what the significance of the numbers are

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Paul,

Thanks for posting that picture here!

Somehow the use of Commonwealth materiel in US service is very interesting.

Hanno

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by dcrfan

Note the two colour camouflage and the number 2610 on the closest Carrier and what appears to be 2601 on the back Carrier. As NZ did not build 2600 LP2s I'm not sure what the significance of the numbers are.

These are Australian Hull numbers. Interesting, the story goes back and forth between Aust production and NZ production Carriers being supplied to the US forces.