Canadian Iltis in Holland

[Hanno Spoelstra]

I guess it's an example used by the Canadian Army in Germany, and auctioned off there when they left sometime after the fall of the Iron Curtain?

H.

[Lynn Eades]

What happened to that curtain? Did the scrappies get that too?

[rob love]

It always amazes me how far some MVs travel. While the world has gotten a lot smaller thanks to communications like the internet, shipping has not. To see behemoths like Cdn M135s showing up in Nevada, or Iltis showing up in far reaching corners of the world, is always a surprise.

I did not know we left Iltis in Germany. At that time they were only 10 years old.....lots of miles left in them at that point. The M100 trailers were left behind, many destroyed so as to save the work of having to list and sell them. And of course the Lynx, since that fleet was being disposed of anyway.

I was in cypress in 1990, when we replaced the existing Iltis fleet there with the pajero. The Iltis wore quickly due to the rough roads, and had suffered from considerable cracking in the bodies and the frames. That fleet was all sent here to Shilo where they were mixed/matched and returned to service.

When we left Kandahar, the only vehicles that were being left behind were some of the gators. Even the MLVWs, at the end of their service life and with little or no salvage value, were being shipped home.

[45jim]

Rob I'm surprised they replaced the Iltis so quickly in Cypress. I was there in 88 in 60 Recce and we patrolled the buffer zone in the Iltis everyday. We used them in the city Monday to Saturday and only took them out into the country on Sunday's (out to Lorigina) to relieve the Brit Scout Car Squadron (equipped with Ferrets) for a day. We used the Grizzly's sporadically (mostly on the rural route and for Embassy Drills) and the Lynx's only during the first month or so before turning them over to Rural Squadron where they sat idle for the tour. The Iltis had a pretty easy life in Cypress as the route was 25 years old (by that time) and had been plowed by generations of troops in M38A1's. Our patrols staggered their departure times but a route only took a few hours daily, while the rural route took all day. They were in good shape when we arrived and turned them over in similar shape (we never had an N/S Iltis the whole tour) but the Lynx's were in terrible shape, we spent weeks repairing, repainting and re-stowing them and once up to snuff, they were parked and tarped. We did find Canadian M38A1's cut in half disposed in the ocean off the North Coast near the MG range.

[rob love]

The two lynx were replaced with two m113a2 pioneer dozers during my tour. I was told that there was an agreement as to how much armour we could hold in theater, so it was two in for two out.

The Iltis were already in trouble at that point, although some of it was unfounded. Cracks in caulking on the seams of the frame were in some cases being misdiagnosed as frame cracks. The body cracking was real though. I also noted that all our in theater Iltis had the mechanical fuel pumps from the commercial VWs installed due to the unreliability of the electric pumps. Despite the heat of Cypress, we did not experience any vapor lock and got rid of the constant failures of the electric pump.

The grey matter is starting to thicken....I don't recall the AVGP in Cypress that much. I will have to pull out the tour book and see. I do recall us having to assemble the runflats, so no doubt they were out there.

[rob love]

Stuart
Yes, I believe you are correct on that one. The Iltis were long gone by the time I was working in Kandahar, and you are talking about Kabul. Some tooling did remain which I returned to the CFSS during my second contract.

I believe there are some photos floating around of those Iltis after the locals unearthed them and rejoined the pieces. They are an enterprising people, and work miracles with what they have.

I can't really discuss any further vehicle dispositions for obvious reasons.

[Scott Bentley]

The Graveyard was right next to our lines in Julien.

The troops used to find the odd runner or two in the pile and would take turns jumping them etc. That promptly ended when a short film resembling the opening scenes to the A-Team surfaced

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by Stuart Fedak

It is fitting that the Zombie Iltis should arise from the dead, after having lived for twice their expected lifespan.
Stuart

I'd be curious to know what the intended lifespan of the MLVW was. Despite the roll out of the MSVS, there were still quite a few of them bombing around Meaford this past week during Stalwart Guardian. If the Iltis is a Zombie, the MLVW is a Day Walking Vampire

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Stuart Fedak

For all of their years of honourable and distinguished service....,
Stuart

There goes Stuart trying to wind me up again.

Any government that would send their troops to war in a 20 year old softskin vehicle should be removed to third party status. Oh wait....they have

[rob love]

While MLU is no place to be talking politics.....

Under a certain party whose colour is red and name starts with an L, we went into that conflict with softskin, old vehicles. There were attempts at trying to make those softskin B vehicles battle-worthy. LSVWs and MLVWs and HLVWs got applied armour, and semi-militarized highway tractors also received add on armour packages. After the political embarrassment (and payment of life by soldiers), the G wagon was purchased with an armour package. Not cheap, but not the right vehicle for battle either.

In comes a party whose colour is blue and name starts with a C. Armoured heavy trucks are purchased quickly. Yes, they cost a million each, and were expensive to maintain. End of the day, no soldier was killed in one. You can correct me if I'm wrong. I did see some AHSVS come in with severe external damages, but in all cases the cabs were intact and the occupants safe. All those lighter vehicles with their add on armour? Relegated to in camp duties or duties within the FOBs. If they traveled in between the secure areas, it was on the back of a flat bed, where they belonged. All those G-wagons? Sent home where they belonged.

I won't go into some of the equipment purchased for the war, because some of it is still up there. But know that equipment saved lives.

Canada needed helicopters? Done. Canada needed more armoured cars (RGs and Buffalos) Done. Canadian soldiers needed Tim Horton's doughnuts? Done.

Trust me...whatever we wanted or needed, we got. From my perspective as a maintainer, we wanted for nothing.

One problem with a democratic system though is that you must make approximately 40% of the people happy to be re-elected. After a very costly war, and a deep worldwide financial crisis, the C party needs to balance the books in the next year and a half to be presentable to the public. The peacetime portion of the army is now suffering severe cuts. But nobody is going to die over the cuts. A lot of civilian employees and contractors will lose their jobs (count me in that bunch) but they will do what they have to do.

So which party would you want to go to war under? One that tries to make do, or one that is willing to pay the price and give the guys sent over there the tools to do the job?

Canada's auditor General said it best. She came out with her team and landed in Kandahar. While dis-embarking from the aircraft on the airfield, a rocket went skidding by. It must have made an impression on her. At the end of her week, her statement was: "My sense is there is good control," she said. "But I think once the decision is made to send our people into war, we have to make sure they are equipped properly, that they are well supported and well protected. And the costs of these things becomes almost a little irrelevant in the whole scheme of things." This was from Sheila Fraser, who was not known to give anyone a free pass.