White M3A1 AOP Windshield and Door armour

[motto]

Hi Darryl
This should just about complete the requirements for the windshield armour.
Upper edge of view ports are 5-3/4" below top edge of the plate.

A vertical line drawn through the centres of the bolt holes for the view port block guides measures as being 1-3/32" beyond each end of the view port opening.
Centres for these holes are 3-3/4" and 8" below the upper edge.

The three support strut hole centres are 11-1/4" below the top edge.
If a line is drawn through the centres of the three holes and carried on to the edges of the plate, the outer two hole centres are 5-1/8" in from either end. The third hole is NOT on centre,it is offset to the right. Its centre is 27-1/4" from the r/h edge and 33-1/4" from the l/h edge.
These holes are .515" diameter X .250 deep. Bottom of holes are flat, not pointed.

One person can carry the windshield armour but to install it on the vehicle it may be wise to have somebody assist, particularly if everything is already painted. I would suggest that the three hinges be secured to the visor first so as it could then be placed on the vehicle in the down position and maybe a ratchet strap put right around it to stop it sliding down the scuttle.

Tomorrow, if conditions allow, I will take some door armour measurements.

David

[motto]

Hanno and Lynn

The differences between the White Scout Car and Half Track armour can probably be explained by differences in the mechanical components used on the two vehicles. Larger engine needed larger engine bay. Tracks instead of wheels on the rear may have dictated a wider hull. Length of track unit meant longer arches resulting in narrower front doors (about 6" from memory).

I would be fairly sure that's what it's about.

David

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by motto

The differences between the White Scout Car and Half Track armour can probably be explained by differences in the mechanical components used on the two vehicles. Larger engine needed larger engine bay. Tracks instead of wheels on the rear may have dictated a wider hull. Length of track unit meant longer arches resulting in narrower front doors (about 6" from memory).

I would be fairly sure that's what it's about.

David,

Thanks, sure makes sense. Looks can be deceiving! Just like the Chev and Ford CMP, they look they same - but the differences are actually quite significant.

Hanno

[motto]

Darryl, if you PM your email address I will try to get you the wiper slot photo. I also have a camera problem that will delay things a little.

To describe things a bit better re the wiper slot:- Starting with the blank plate drill a 1/2"diameter hole with the centre 3/4" up from the lower edge. That creates the upper end of the slot. Next, counterbore that hole from the rear face 7/8" diameter X.230 deep. Lastly, remove just enough material to create a 1/2" wide slot from the original 1/2"hole to the lower edge. Job done! DO NOT EXTEND THE COUNTERBORE.

David

[Big D]

Hi David

PM sent, thanks.

[Andrew]

I used an engine hoist to remove mine, used a strap thru gun/sight ports, removed it by myself that way, and will install it that way. BTW i removed and installed my doors the same

Originally Posted by motto

One person can carry the windshield armour but to install it on the vehicle it may be wise to have somebody assist, particularly if everything is already painted. I would suggest that the three hinges be secured to the visor first so as it could then be placed on the vehicle in the down position and maybe a ratchet strap put right around it to stop it sliding down the scuttle.


David

[Big D]

David,

Fantastic. That certainly covers the windshield armour nicely. Much appreciated. Just a thought; if you still have your armour off, is there any chance of you taking a picture of the wiper slots please? I am just trying to get my head around the counter boring on them.

I didn't get a chance to buy you a beer at Corowa last time but I sure owe you one now!

I'll certainly use some form of lifting or securing of the windshield armour when fitting like you and Andrew have said.

Thanks.

[motto]

Good upon you Ghostly Robert, the photos are exactly what was needed and were a problem for me to supply.

Darryl, The only door upper armour I have has been modified along the upper edge but I will give what dimensions are useful.

The lower edge is 33-3/8" long the same as the upper edge of the door itself.
The view port is 8" X 3-1/2" and is at an angle of 18 degrees from the horizontal (as best as I can measure).
If a line is extended from the lower edge of the opening in both directions the rear extension will intersect the lower edge 19-1/8" from the forward corner. The forward extension will intersect the sloped forward edge 6-1/8" up from the forward corner.
A line drawn through the centres of the aft block guide mounting holes measures as being 1-1/8" aft of the rear edge of the opening with the hole centres 1-11/16" and 6-11/16" up the line from the lower edge.
Forward guide mounting hole centre line is 1-3/4" forward of forward edge of the opening with hole centres 4-3/8" and 10-1/2" up the line from the lower edge.

There is not much more you may need that I can give you Darryl but don't hesitate to ask.

David

Oops, need to locate view port in fore and aft direction!

[Big D]

Hi David,

Thanks for that confirmation on the cross brace. I hadn't noticed it myself until I began looking at how to straighten the front bumper, and then it just didn't look right.

That is obviously a problem area then. I'm just not sure about the merits of trying to remove it and straighten it. Is there an easy way to get those hot rivets(?) out short of just cutting the heads off?

Trying to make up something to replace them that looks like them to could be a problem. I guess a bolt head could be ground to make it look original. Overall it looks like it could be time consuming removing that piece, straightening it when I'm not sure it has a great effect on the look of the vehicle.

Any thoughts?

Thanks to for the door measurements. That is fantastic and much appreciated. I'll start getting a plan together and see if it all makes sense.

Hi Robert,

Thanks to you to for the photos. That does indeed help. I couldn't quite get my head around how it was shaped and this puts all of David's description into perspective.

Many thanks.

[David Dunlop]

It was not unusual for farmers over here to use CMPs to push over trees on their property, which eventually takes its toll on front number and sheet metal. Could the Scout Cars have been used for similar work out your way?

[motto]

G'day Darryl, here's a bit more info on the upper door.

A scribed line projecting each of the ends of the view port opening downwards will intersect the lower edge of the plate at a distance of 6-1/2" for the forward end and 14-7/8" for the rear, measured from the forward corner of the plate. The ends of the opening and therefore the scribed lines would be inclined rearwards at an angle of 108 degrees or 18 degrees aft of vertical.

Two Footman loops appear to have been attached to the door, both being 3" up from the lower edge to the centres. The aft one has the centre of the rear hole 13/16" forward of the rear edge of the plate. The forward one is 1-5/16" from its centre to the forward edge of the plate. This measurement is taken AT RIGHT ANGLES to the forward edge of the plate.
The holes and therefore the Footman loops are 2-1/4" between centres.

In regards to the distorted brackets on the apron armour support I would normally chisel the rivet heads off and punch them out if they are accessible. For replacement I would simply bolt them back in place. That would also be an advantage if you ever had to remove the brackets again.

It's quite possible David that pushing down saplings could have been what did the damage particularly if the roller had been removed as was often the case.

David