dimension(s) request TL 13282

[Ben]

Why does a 3" mortar carrier have an expansion tank and a standard carrier doesn't?

Ben

[Jordan Baker]

@ Michael. The one you borrowed is a Bizal made one. Kevin, hopefully it saves you having to measure it up.

My reasoning for this bracket is to simply allow for storage of the rifles and being able to clear the battery below. As for the condenser tank, it probably was a convenient place to hang it for the people who designed the layout.

[Michael R.]

Thank-you all for your input.

Lynn E. provided the three dimensions, which match both the part produced at Mid-West Military, as well as a production bracket with mounting holes for attaching the recovery tank.
With thanks to Lynn, Manfred and Jordan.

Jordan kindly loaned me the reproduction bracket off his MKI*, non-mortar version carrier. With that bracket in place, I questioned if the length was correct for the mortar carrier application when supporting the radiator condenser, hence my request for dimensions.

The images posted by Kevin show a production condenser tank as found fitted on Rick's De B.'s mortar carrier, which is from the Canadian contract of 1,000 units. Production dates observed for that contract are November, 1942 and January, 1943. Rick has an excellent photo montage of his UC-2 mortar carrier posted through MLU.



In the last two photo images, you can see the 1st. Battalion, Rocky Mountain Rangers on parade in February, 1942 through downtown Vancouver, B.C. Canada with M10 Ross rifles and BREN MK.I. The other factory image is a mortar carrier at Ford Canada in Windsor, Ontario. Note the rifle type being held and also fitted in the stand-off bracket?


Photo credits:
1. Ford Motor Company, Windsor, Ontario
2. City of Vancouver Archives, Canada. Image #AM1184-S3-: CVA 1184-63 (cropped)
3. Rick DeBruyn
The line drawings are copied from Chilwell, with thanks to George Moore.

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Jordan Baker

@ Michael. The one you borrowed is a Bizal made one. Kevin, hopefully it saves you having to measure it up.

My reasoning for this bracket is to simply allow for storage of the rifles and being able to clear the battery below. As for the condenser tank, it probably was a convenient place to hang it for the people who designed the layout.

I agree, I think it's a spacer to clear the battery below. Though, the manual does refer to a wireless function and the 11 set does have an AE coupler that somewhat fits....

[Lynn Eades]

Michael, I can measure an original, after tuesday.
In some of the pre universals, with a similar bracket (but not exactly the same) the stowage plan identifies the bracket as support for a rifle, and a Bren LMG.

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Ben

Why does a 3" mortar carrier have an expansion tank and a standard carrier doesn't?

Ben

A standard (Mk.1*) Carrier had a different method of collecting overflowing rad fluid. An elbow on the rad cap attached to a hose and another elbow on the underside of the engine cover on the right side. From there a copper pipe carried it to the rear to be collected in a 2 gal. water can. By 1942, Mk.II Mortar and Mk.II* Carriers used the now standard Ford expansion can.

[Lynn Eades]

Did the early universals not dump the water through the hull floor?

[Ben]

I've just looked for an overflow container or catch tank listed in the British carrier parts books and manuals up to and including MK1's and can't see anything. It looks like the tube from the radiator pressure cap goes into a rubber tube then through the 90* brass elbow bolted to the engine frame then down into the floor and drains out of the vehicle. If I've missed the catch tank I'd appreciate being pointed in the right direction.

The photo of the Scout below shows a different arrangement to that of Ross' original post. It has the spacer to clear the battery tray (we assume) but not the tray. This must be an earlier version, certainly British but I can't be sure when the spacer was dropped in favour of the tray. Was the tray a Canadian thing?

Sorry Ross, I can't find anything here to measure to get your dimension.

Ben

[Michael R.]

With thanks to Lynn E., Manfred M., Jordan B. and others.
In inches, the bracket measures close to 7.5 x 3 x 5.5.
No significant dimensional difference was found in production samples of TL 13282 and C21UCM 13282.