AUS CMP tyre loading ramp

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Harry Moon

Why would the Australian Army make up a manual or picture of the tire Carrier with an oddball truck unless they were more common than thought.

Hi Harry,

It's my guess they just picked the nearest truck and it happened to be a tipper! They were produced in considerable numbers here (judging by the number of survivors) so it's not particularly unlikely. I'm sure Mike is correct in saying: "In Australia, the tippers were the only CMP during the war to be fitted with conventional wheels and 8.25x20 tyres as standard that I'm aware of."

I guess it's possible that dual wheels occasionally found their way onto non-tippers in the field, as seems to have been the case in post war years as mentioned by Keith: "I have seen post-war pics of No6 CGTs fitted with dual rear wheels, a field mod no doubt." However I don't recall seeing any wartime pics of duals on non-tippers.

After disposal of course a great many CMPs were fitted with duals for road use, mostly by dealers I suspect, who offered customers a choice of singles or duals (see ad below). It seems there were several different types used, and I happen to have a couple of the type pictured on the spare tyre ramp. These came off an F60L wreck. As you can see they have 6 cutouts in the wheel centre, unlike yours which have 5 cutouts. I suspect the 20cwt trailers may have used early Ford wheels - I'll post some pics shortly which may help identify.

Cheers,
Tony

[Harry Moon]

I see your wheels are 8 stud and look like they would fit on a standard CMP brake and hub.

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler

I suspect the 20cwt trailers may have used early Ford wheels - I'll post some pics shortly which may help identify.

These may not be much help Harry but they're all I can find at present as I don't often photograph commercial trucks.

First two pics appear to show early Ford wheels and hubs fitted to Ford CMP axle, which is fitted to Chev CMP chassis!

Following two pics appear to show early Ford axle fitted to cut-down Studebaker chassis with original tipper, converted into a trailer!

Wheel centres look very similar to yours....not sure about rim width though.

[Keith Webb]

I suspect this pic may have been published in one of the regular pamphlets which introduced new equipment into service. There are other pics of loading a CMP wheel using the standard ramp.

There's a lot of careful photo retouching in this pic, a fairly normal practice at the time, it was a real art.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

There's a lot of careful photo retouching in this pic, a fairly normal practice at the time, it was a real art

Now, don't tell me it was photoshopped!?! It couldn't have been, back in those days photoshop didn't exist yet.

[Tony Wheeler]

On second thoughts...I have no idea what this tipper/trailer used to be! One for the experts...

[cliff]

Almost looks like a Chev 4X4 tipper body

[Mike Cecil]

Standard US production all steel base body.

The rear view shows the lower coaming, half cut away, with the remaining half with the taillamp recess/aperture.

Keith's image: note the soldier has a 9 Infantry Division colour patch (2nd version).

Mike C

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Keith's image: note the soldier has a 9 Infantry Division colour patch (2nd version).

Mike C

To expand on this, the "2nd Version" patches still used the original colour schemes, but were changed to a "T" shape in recognition of that unit's service in Tobruk!

[Mike Cecil]

Tony,

Regarding the 9 Inf Divs 'T' shaped colour patch, what you have said is a popularly held belief, but which apparently has no basis in fact.

According to Morsehead, who chose the 'T' shape for his Division, when he answered an inquiry in 1952:

'....nothing, as far as I was concerned having been indicated that the 'T' stood for Tobruch nor, when informing the C-in-C in Australia, the late Field Marshal Blamey, of the change did I make reference to Tobruch but explained that a common colour patch was necessary and I had decided, as all other simple forms from squares to circles had long since been bespoken, on the combination of two oblongs, the larger one on top.'

It's also interesting that the Sun Newspaper's 'Colour Patchs' guide published in 1946 makes no reference to the 'T' being associated with the Division's service at Tobruch. The relevant paragraph is quoted below:

'Thus duplication of many patches of 1 and 6 Divs, 2 and 7 Divs, 3 and 8 Divs, and 4 and 9 Divs, resulted. To distinguish itself, 9 Div changed its divisional shape from the circle of 4 Div to a T.'

Moreshead explained it slightly differently, stating (again, in 1952) that:

'The 9 Divison was hurreidly formed and wore a collection of colour patches - oblongs, squares, circles, ovals - and after coming out of Tobruch I decided we should have the one form ...'

So it would appear that the 'T' was based on a rather more mundane requirement than commemorating the Division's good service in the defence of Tobruch. The timing of the decision, and the shape, have, however, led to that belief.

Mike C