Wake Up Australia

[Mike Cecil]

Dianna,

Perhaps a rethink about the statement 'except outside of the bombing of Darwin in WW2....'. Broome? Sydney? Various other places bombed repeatedly across Northern Australia in WW2? Besides, I seem to remember the National Flag wasn't actually officially proclaimed until the 1950s, although it existed from just after Federation.

Of course, Australians, particularly since the latter part of WW1, have always fought as a National entity, responsible ultimately to the Australian Government, rather than being spread as individual 'reinforcements' within other nation's armies. Even the RAAF personnel in the UK in WW2, although mixed with other British Commonwealth nationalities, were there by agreement, and were still responsible to RAAF command and Australian government control.

Mike C

[malcolm erik bogaert]

well said Bob..how about leaving Australia and comming over to the UK we could with somebody like you as Prime Minister instead of the gutless wonders we have..good on yer mate regards malcolm

[Dianaa]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Dianna,

Perhaps a rethink about the statement 'except outside of the bombing of Darwin in WW2....'. Broome? Sydney? ...

Mike C

Hi Mike

In Bob's original post is the line "Every Australian died for the Australian Flag". It's the sentiment that our troops fought (and died) for the Flag, its a myth, they fought not to let down their mates and they fought for the country, and they mostly they did it under a flag that was not our own. They would have done the same whatever was the design of the cloth at the top of the staff.

My comment about Darwin, was to reflect that only on Australian shores or in Australian territories was the National Flag atop the flag staffs during fighting. Maybe I should have said it that way. Yes Broome, Darwin, North West Cape and other places were bombed and mostly fought back. But only Fort Scratchley actually fired back (fought) at a Japanese vessel at sea and in Sydney Harbour the Allied vessels would have been flying the White Ensign of the UK and Commonwealth navies or the US national flag.

The Canadians seem to have had no problem changing their national emblem, and the US proudly flies "Old Glory" emblasoned with 50 stars over USS Arizona when the flag of WWII had only 48 stars representing the 48 continental states (which excluded Hawaii and Alaska which had not gained statehood).

Why is it that only in Australia do we get so passionate about retaining a design that includes the Union Flag of the UK subjugating a quarter of our national emblem and using a myth to justify it?

By the way the idea that we are losing our country to political correctness or to appease peoples from other countries, is something that annoys me every day, but we should support our stance with the truth and not by creating myths. (This is one case where I do have an opinion.)

Diana

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by Dianaa

Hi Mike

...Why is it that only in Australia do we get so passionate about retaining a design that includes the Union Flag of the UK subjugating a quarter of our national emblem and using a myth to justify it?...

Diana

Diana

Sorry to hear that your ties to the UK is a myth. On the serious side, is there an actual movement to change the design of your national flag? Or, is this a personal pique?

We in Canada went through that exercise in the mid 1960s, but the driving force to provide a new flag was to obtain a rallying symbol for all Canadians. The choice of the design is a story in itself, but in the end we got a new flag that disarmed separatist sentiments about our former flag, and gave all Canadians a distinctive symbol for which we remain proud of. There was a hell of a fight to retain the former flag, but our political circumstances demanded a solution, and thus our new flag was born.

Bruce!

[Dianaa]

Originally Posted by RHClarke

Diana

Sorry to hear that your ties to the UK is a myth. On the serious side, is there an actual movement to change the design of your national flag? Or, is this a personal pique?

We in Canada went through that exercise in the mid 1960s, ...

... Bruce!

Hi Bruce

Did we have ties to the UK? I know that we have Queen Betty I, Queen of Australia who seems to be the same monarch that the Brits call Queen Elizabeth II!

Yes there is a real movement to change the flag, but momentum for change waxes and wanes but the motivation is very similar to that in Canada without the Québécois.

Personally I acknowledge our historical ties to Great Britain, and watching the US system, very glad we don't have to elect a President, but feel that Australia should have it's own national symbol, like Canada did in the '60s and what Canadian would wish to return the the former emblem today?

This is my point, the flag, whatever its design only represents the nation, it is not the nation in itself and to the point of this thread most Australians who fought and died didn't actually die for the flag but did it for their mates and for the country we love.

Diana

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi all - this was sent to me by a mate and is another example of what pisses me off with our current politicians.

Roll on 2013!!!!!!!!!
THIS IS ONE OF A NUMBER OF TIMES WHEN OUR GOVERMENT [PAST & PRESENT ] MAKE ME WISH WE COULD JUST MAKE ALL OF THEM DISAPPEAR & WE COULD START AGAIN WITH PEOPLE WHO CARE ABOUT AUSTRALIANS & AUSTRALIA
Gillard/Brown Government ... sent by a Vietnam Vet ...
This is your Australia Today

*************************************

Whoever wrote this was really pissed off ... but it's a point well made.

On the 18th of August 1966 at Long Tan , Vietnam , D Company of the 6th Battalion, Royal Australian Regiment, mainly made up of Australian National Servicemen and at that time located to support the American Army, fought a battle against the Viet Cong.

In this action D Company lost 18 men killed and 24 injured.

The Viet Cong dead numbered in excess of 245.

The Australian lines were never crossed.

The Viet Cong withdrew.

American President Johnson and US Army Staff recognised the achievement

by awarding the Unit Citation of Gallantry on 30th May 1968. The Award was formally accepted by Queen Elizabeth in 13th June 1968.

Prime Minister John Gorton made the formal presentation of this American Citation to the Battalion at Lavarack Barracks, Townsville on 18th August 1968.

On the 31st of March 2010, D Company of the 6th Battalion, Royal Australian Regiment were belatedly awarded the Australian version of "Unit Citation for Gallantry" (UCG) honouring their extraordinary deeds at Long Tan.

The Government however refused to approve travel payment for the surviving Unit Members or their families, including the families of deceased Unit Members, in order that they be present at the UCG Presentation Ceremony presided over by the Governor General of Australia .

In February 2011 the same Government of Australia footed the Funeral Bill to bury the illegal boat people, who tragically perished on Christmas Island .

This included flying surviving family illegals and survivors to and from Sydney and Xmas Island , accommodating them, etc etc, plus a Coach tour of Sydney thrown in.

The Canberra Politburo had waited 45 years to publicly acknowledge the bravery and sacrifice of these Sons of Australia and then immediately shit on their memory by wetting themselves to appease the feelings of boat illegals forcing entry into our country.

Now we witness what can only be described as attempted political face saving, by this same Government, sponsoring a TV Documentary, to celebrate our Armed Forces accomplishments at Kapyong , Korea in 1951.

This will see our Prime Minister and the entire Priministerial Entourage fly in a RAAF plane to Korea to mark this 60th Anniversary.

What Bloody Hypocrisy!!!

What a Blatant Affront to the feelings of our Nation's serving Armed Forces,

Past and Present.

Shame, Shame, Shame, You Political Parasites.

You do not deserve to represent our country.

[Dianaa]

Absolutely Juliar and her illigitimate government are a pack of hypocrits.

The awarding of the Long-Tan doll is another despicable act of political hacks!

[Little Jo]

Hi All

Couldn't help but to put in my two cents worth. So lets change the words to the that old prayer.

FIRST BOOK OF GOVERNMENT

Julia is the shepherd I did not want.
She leadeth me beside the still factories.
She restoreth my faith in the Liberal party.
She guideth me in the path of unemployment for her party's sake.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the bread line,
I shall fear no hunger for her bailouts are with me.
She has anointed my income with taxes,
My expenses runneth over.
Surely, poverty and hard living will follow me all the days of my life.
And I will live in a rented home forever.
I am glad I am Australian. I am glad that I am free.
But I wish I was a dog, and Julia was a tree.

Cheers

Tony

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by Dianaa

Hi Bruce

...This is my point, the flag, whatever its design only represents the nation, it is not the nation in itself and to the point of this thread most Australians who fought and died didn't actually die for the flag but did it for their mates and for the country we love. Diana

Diana,

Very interesting. I served my country for over 20 years and I can state that my mates and I saw our flag as inseparable from our country. Our flag represents more than a geographical location - it represents our way of life, our families, our friends and our ideals.

I can't see how you can separate the flag from the country. Then again, I am not a liberal so these fancy notions escape me.

Is your point based on something you read, or did you serve or are you serving in the military? On what do you base your hypothesis?

[Ganmain Tony]

Originally Posted by RHClarke

Diana,

Very interesting. I served my country for over 20 years and I can state that my mates and I saw our flag as inseparable from our country. Our flag represents more than a geographical location - it represents our way of life, our families, our friends and our ideals.

I can't see how you can separate the flag from the country. Then again, I am not a liberal so these fancy notions escape me.

Is your point based on something you read, or did you serve or are you serving in the military? On what do you base your hypothesis?

Two British officers Lieutenants Teignmouth Melvill and Neville Coghill were awarded (posthumously) the Victoria Cross for their gallantry at the battle of Isandhlwana. They died trying to protect the Queens colour of the Regiment.

Point being there are countless examples of men dying in wars for standards or colours because they do represent so much more.

I put it to you that Australians in war have died for the Flag and I also put it to you that they have died for the Union Jack as well.

For my part the Australian Flag should never be touched or altered......ever.

[Little Jo]

Hi Guys

I am not one for change just for the sake of change and would not like to see our flag changed from what it is now. I served under this flag for 10 years and it does not matter where you go in the world you will feel a tug at your heart strings when you see our flag flying. Ok it has the Union Jack in the corner which is British but we have the stars of the southern cross below it which is Australian. If you look at the official flag of Hawaii you will see they still have the Union Jack in the top left corner.

I was disgusted to see Aboriginals burn and trample our flag the day after Australia Day. I know they have grievances, but we are all Australian so do not dishonour our flag it is an insult to the Aboriginal soldiers who served, fought and died under our flag.

LEAVE THE FLAG ALONE AND BE A PROUD AUSTRALIAN.

Cheers

Tony

[Dianaa]

Originally Posted by RHClarke

Diana,

Very interesting. I served my country for over 20 years and I can state that my mates and I saw our flag as inseparable from our country. Our flag represents more than a geographical location - it represents our way of life, our families, our friends and our ideals.

I can't see how you can separate the flag from the country. Then again, I am not a liberal so these fancy notions escape me.

Is your point based on something you read, or did you serve or are you serving in the military? On what do you base your hypothesis?

Interestingly it seems my opinion is only valuable if I wore a military uniform, well no I didn't, but that is not the point is it, I wore a uniform in civilian services for more than 35 years and had my country needed my nursing services in a battle zone overseas I would have signed up in a second. Many of my generation were too late for Vietnam and even though many joined the military very few actually served anywhere but Australia, so what does their practicing to defend the Country make their service any more valuable than my service in the front line of trauma and emergency saving the lives of Australians. And if you would like to know I represented the people of Australia working for the United Nations but no I never faced any bullets.

My hypothesis is not that the National Flag is not a symbol worthy of honour, but IMHO like Canada I feel we deserve a flag which identifies an independant Australia, not something that has the Union Flag (its not a jack unless its on a ship) occupying the most important 25%.

[hrpearce]

I'm a forth generation Australian Grazier in my mid 50's and I dont want the flag to change. My ancestors came from England, Scotland, Wales and France.
To me the flag represents where I came from 1/4 and where I live in freedom 3/4.

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by Dianaa

Interestingly it seems my opinion is only valuable if I wore a military uniform, well no I didn't,..

Dianna,

You raised the issue using soldiers as examples. Don't worry though, soldiers whether serving or retired, are used to folks using us for their own gain. Good luck with your quest.