M38A1 CDN3 markings

[Gunner]

Hi Chris:

Rob is right on the money. If you want to do a recce jeep for overseas service you`ll have to go to UN markings.

The recce symbol is one of the standardised NATO tactical signs as found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_Mi..._Based_Systems

Scroll down and you`ll find the recce (or cavalry) symbol.

The badges were painted in contrasting colour (black on green, green on black or even half and half if it was on a shift between colours- though we tended to try to keep the area for the badge all green or olive to save hassle) and were about the same size as the flag. Subdued flags were not generally in use until after the M38A1 was out of service though I have seen the odd one. We used to smear cam stick or mud on the red and white flags when on ex. The reserve CBGs were not invented until after the M38A1 was gone so the unit size indicator (also in the noted website) should be the two bars of the battalion or regiment (our Commonwealth regiments being battalion sized) and the First Hussar designator (1H) should be at the top right corner of the symbol parallel to the ground.

Hope this helps! Cheers, Mike

[chris vickery]

Thanks Guys

So, in theory, my CDN3 done as a militia jeep of 1 Hussars should have;
RED and white Canadian flag on front pass fender and rear driver bumperette
TAC sign (rectangle / slash mark for recce) on driver side front fender, rh side rear bumperette
The TAC sign should also have II 1H with it? A little confused on the relation in placement to the TAC symbol.
White hood numbers and dash number

[rob love]

No white hood numbers. They had license plates for the CFR numbers. The dash numbers should be there though.

You also should stencil the tire pressures (H and CC) over each wheel well.

There were the FMC Standing orders as well as various brigade standing orders which directed the markings on each vehicle. Never seen these orders? Well then you would be in the 98% of the NCMs that hadn't either. As a result, many of the markings ended up being dictated at the unit level. Best bet is to contact the unit's museum and observe photos of what they actually had in use if you want to see what actually existed, as opposed to the usual over-stenciling done by collectors.

Further to what Mike was saying above, the only time I can think of that a Jeep type vehicle was actually sent into a war as a fighting recce vehicle was early in the Afghan war. (Only the Liberals would send their soldiers into battle with sofskinned, unarmoured 17 year old vehicles. Thank you Conservatives for giving our soldiers the equipment they needed and deserved: RG31s, functional Leopards, AHSVS etc) We were not there as peacekeepers as in previous conflicts, like Bosnia, Cypress, or Egypt where we were "neutral" in the conflict. Yes there were shooting incidents in all those wars, but those were more anomalies rather than the expected results.

[servicepub (RIP)]

Originally Posted by chris vickery

White hood numbers and dash number

When I got mine it had the numbers, in white, about 1 inch high, below the door sill on each side. This is in addition to the number on the dash (actually, it was on the window frame and was mis-leading as the window frame was a replacement)
Clive

[Gunner]

Hi Chris:

You want you tac sign to look like this:

IMG_9389.jpg

Cheers! Mike

[chris vickery]

Thanks Mike, how thich should the lines be for the tac symbol?

[maple_leaf_eh]

I was in the Reserves during that period. The flags front and back. Two Canada licence plates with the same 5 digit number, and the year and 5-digits stickered on the top centre of the dash

No tire pressures - they are shown on the data plates IIRC, and except for an unreliable compressor from the Deuce And A Half, we didn't have any way of pumping up the tires.

No CFR number stencilled under the door.

The basic paint should be a coarse 3-colour camoflage. Before that, it would have been monochrome semi-gloss dark green with the 4-pointed FMC sticker on the opposite front fender from the flag.

[Gunner]

Hi Chris:

The lines should be about 1/2 an inch thick all around.

Terry and Rob have raised an interesting question about tire pressures. The books I have indicate that the TP should be on the inside of the driver's door or on the dash, if there was no door, as follows: TP: F36 R40. Sometimes the words Tire Pressure(s) were written out. Some units seem to have adopted the US style of marking over the wheel arches or on the sides of the fenders so both could be historically accurate but on the door or dash would be more correct.

Cheers! Mike

[Ed Storey]

Images of post-1975 Canadian military vehicles show that vehicle markings were and still are very subjective. Some units adhere quite strictly to marking doctrine, while others seemed to ignore it completely. The Regular Force seems to have been far better at marking their vehicles according to official guidance although there are still differences between the various brigades and how they applied the markings. I have several hundred images of numerouss Canadian military vehicles from this period that I use as reference and although I did not get a photograph of every vehicle at every CF base across Canada, I have a very good cross-section of vehicle types in use by DND. From the images that I have, I could not find many vehicles with tire pressure markings and only a few with comprehensive tactical markings. Naturally CFR plates seem to be the only common factor with the Canada flag decal being the next common marking element.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Gunner

Hi Chris:

You want you tac sign to look like this:

Attachment 45704

Cheers! Mike

Cross brace for cavalry (check),

No oval for tracked recce (check), and

Missing two small circles underneath for wheeled recce (yawning chasm of absence).