ID guns on these MCC trucks

[Lang]

MikeC,

I was not trying to enter a dispute with you Mike just read your first info regarding 18 pounders only going to 16 deg then mentioning they actually reduced range at higher angles because of fixed ammunition. I presumed you were suggesting much over the 16deg was the limit - I apologise for reading you wrong.

We now have established that 45deg is maximum range for any projectile whether fixed cartridge, variable cartridge or hand thrown and in fixed conditions velocity out of the barrel is all that counts for each individual shot. I suppose that is why when doing a concentrated shoot 4 identical guns, sitting within yards of each other with identical sight settings and shells flying through the same winds etc all have to have individual corrections to get everybody hitting the same spot.

You can hear the difference when you get the order "FIRE" and everyone goes within a micro-second of each other in one big explosion but half a minute later you hear in the distance Bang, Bang Bang Bang as the faster muzzle velocity shells sprint ahead of the rest.

As the members say above, once the gun variables are dealt with (temperature, wear, charge etc) and a muzzle velocity is established you start dealing with winds etc. Amazingly accurate over such huge distances but the calculations only get you in the ball park and we still are really firing Napoleonic cannon balls and correcting from what the FO sees by eye. We will never get first shot accuracy every time until we have field guns doing a Tomahawk Missile using GPS coordinates inside a "flying" shell itself.

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by Lang

MikeC,.... We will never get first shot accuracy every time until we have field guns doing a Tomahawk Missile using GPS coordinates inside a "flying" shell itself.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...of-target-032/

"within 10 feet of target" - not bad considering the kill radius is over 30 meters.

[Marc van Aalderen]

Hi,

Here are some pics of the original WW1 18 Pdr. before conversion to modern rubber shoes. These were taken at Firepower, the Royal Artillery Museum in Woolwich Arsenal, UK. I find the projectiles very large compared with the cases. One would imagine the range to be limited because of that.

P7140125.jpgP7140126.jpgP7140127.jpgP7140130.jpg

Cheers,

[Lang]

The article says they will roll out in 2006 - did it happen? If so they must be saving a bunch of ammunition in Afghanistan. Very effective as the bad guys don't have time to hide while the guns stab around the countryside like a blind man with a cane (the FO) before they get "on".

There is one drawback to all this progress - in a full-on war the other team have the same technology.

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by Lang

...There is one drawback to all this progress - in a full-on war the other team have the same technology.

Yes, but our ammo won't be made in china.

[Mike Cecil]

Ooops.... just noticed a blunder in my previous post, when I stated:

: "varying the charge weight (it was a semi-fixed cartridge)".

Wrong: the 25 pdr is a Seperate cartridge, not semi-fixed. 105mm Howitzer is semi-fixed.

Sorry guys... I should know better!

Mike C

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Ooops.... just noticed a blunder in my previous post, when I stated:

: "varying the charge weight (it was a semi-fixed cartridge)".

Wrong: the 25 pdr is a Seperate cartridge, not semi-fixed. 105mm Howitzer is semi-fixed.

Sorry guys... I should know better!

Mike C

Mike..
You see that we were very tolerant of your "blunder"..and took advancing age into consideration...
(Keefy made me do it...!!LOL)

[Mike Cecil]

Thank you Alex...... we are all 'advancing' at the same rate (tick tock...)

.... now where did I put my medication and walking frame????

Mike C

[Lang]

Originally Posted by RHClarke

Yes, but our ammo won't be made in china.

I would not be too sure about that. A good Chinese company would not let something like a war interfere with business. If we make them ourselves we will only be able to afford half as much "better" ammunition because the factory workers will be on rostered days off, maternity leave, accrued holidays, stress leave, public holidays, compo for bad backs etc etc etc

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by Lang

I would not be too sure about that. A good Chinese company would not let something like a war interfere with business. If we make them ourselves we will only be able to afford half as much "better" ammunition because the factory workers will be on rostered days off, maternity leave, accrued holidays, stress leave, public holidays, compo for bad backs etc etc etc

If you are not worried about quality and precision, then buy from China.

[George Moore]

Thanks for the extra insight into the history of the guns.

The split trail was I believe only used by Commonwealth forces, I have as yet only seen the photos of that gun in service in North Africa, though generalised in the other areas of the area, Syria, Palestine etc, where I know the Australians were present.
What photos I do have of abandoned guns in France after Dunkirk, and there are fields full of them, not one appears to be a split trail, and I have based my assumptions on this.

There are some photos of a preserved split trail gun on the site.

As an aside, the recent post on WWII films is amazing.
The films are colourised, as some are a bit suspect as to cammo schemes on vehicles, but the North Africa set, after about 3 minutes, has some great shots of 4.5" howitzers firing, and a great one of a 6" howitzer firing. The kick back is incredible, looks as if it would do as much damage to the crew as it would to the target. Must see!!!

Thanks for the info, as you may be aware, I make model master patterns for a company Resicast. We have brought out the 18pdr and 4.5" howitzer in 1/35th scale, and I am working on the 18/25pdr and 6" howitzer.

George.