2011 at the Hammond Barn

[Ganmain Tony]

I agree with Mr Clarke lads...I suspect they all have a bend in 'em. One side or the other.

Grants idea of swapping springs is a good one.

When I reassembled mine I must confess it was pretty straight compared to your's in that earlier picture Bob.

Having said that, when you go to bolt it back together. Even if the chassis bend is corrected. Things still arent going to go back together like lego.

Guards and panels will be done up and undone. My biggest ally was two or three good screw drivers to jam through holes to get panels to line up with their holes. Just enough to tap a few bolts through the adjacent holes and then slowly do up to gently pull the panel or guard into place.

You will have to do this - there will be no way around it.

Love the fabrication work Bob very nice. Look forward to further investigative work and reporting - great job.

Cant wait to see what Phil has to say when he returns. (from where ever he was blown to)

[Bob Carriere]

Well If I can get it within 1/2 inch instead of 1 to 2 inches I will be happy.

Been doing research on the frame thing on various web site including U tube.

Most are oriented to unitized construction where they just pull and stretch until things look like a car again. But then there is one site that deals wtih antiques...... thye are concerned with a 1/4 or 1/2 inch difference. Still some good ideas/pointers. Like the guy in Ottawa told me you need to take a lot of measurements...then some more..... otherwise with out a baseline you do not know where you are going.

The springs a definitely high on the to do list..... but unless I measure first I will not know how much of an improvement I may have. Matching tires is easy to do as I will install two of the new 10:50 tires that are matched then adjust air pressure to get even closer.

Loosening up all the bolts on the two front most frame cross member may make a difference..... I will also loosened the front bumper and the arches.
Removing that rigid 14 inch floor plate bolted tightly to the frame may also have an impact.

I would like to get closer to a better level stance before applying any hydraulic pressure to the frame.

I visited a few bodyshop suppliers today to see if they knew of any (reputabel ?) body shop that woudl have a frame straigthening set up.
I drew a blank most commented on the lack of need as a modern unitized constrcution vehicle/car that needs that much work the insurance company will just scrap it. A rebuilt "branded" vehicle has to be inspected, at the new buyers cost and time before plates are issued.

Comments about the huge floor space ti takes up with diminishing demand has basically killed it except for very expensive cars/antiques. One guy commmented that if I found one in use the operator would be an ol .... he looked at me and corrected himself..... well not a young man.

Yes I expect to have to use drift/alignment pins when working on the assembly.

Will keep you posted of our progress....meanwhile I am keeping my truck parked on a hill so it won't look so bad.

Phil is probably recovering from the storm.... I hope no arm has come to him. his family and his house.... not to mentionhis shop and the CMPs. Knowing Phil he is probably using his truck and army generator to help others.

Last weekend, I paused to look over my shoulder and was happy with what I saw...... three big kids enjoying themselves..... Rob was fabricating shims for his door hinges..... elongating bolt holes for better fit..... Grant was working on his front axle removing pins and bearing withhis home made tools and I am fabricating the nose brackets. At times we had to line up and take turns either at the bench vice or the drill press....... but that is what a good day is all about !!!!

May there be a lot more.

Bob

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Guys

Storm was not a problem for us, though at one point three days before it hit they had projected the path to go right over the house. It actually went 40 miles west of us.

Must admit that I have not been following the tread of your discussion closely, lots of activity with kids, grand kids, and wife retiring from her job as librarian. As you may have noted I've not kept up the posting on BEAST still working away and I'll try and get caught up on postings.

Now to your questions about trying to get vehicles to sit straight and level. My Pattern 12 had been rolled which bent the front cab frame, Bob found me a replacement cab frame and front fender which is all painted and ready to install as soon as BEAST is back together. Also have a 235 engine to put into the Pattern 12 at the same time.

The bent cab frame made it impossible to all the body panels on the cab to line back up on reassembly. The holes all of which had bolts when it came apart but was sprung bad enough that when trying to reassemble even with a 10 frame jack I could not get some of the bolt holes to line up some of them 2 inches off.

Trying to find where the out of level comes in the combination of springs, frame, and tires is a real puzzle. BEAST my HUP has always sat with a slight list to the drivers side. Even with all new tires it had a tilt. When I had it apart I tried to find the difference in the leaf springs. Unloaded the spring sets right to left measured the same. Bare frame measured on a nearly perfectly flat floor in the shop was within 1/8th inch of being flat and was square when measured across the diagonal. With all this done you would think that the HUP would sit flat when reassembled.

Well I've just put the body back on the frame, not level. So my only answer is that the body just plain is heavy on one side.

Now I'll really go back and read the last month of "at the Hammond Barn" posts see if I can add to the confusion.

Cheers Phil

[Bob Carriere]

... that you are OK.....just finished looking at Mountain PBS and the damage in upper NY is tremendous.

I will not try to make the frame perfect.... that would not be CMP original but at least less of a tilt.

Looking forward to your comments.

Bob C.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Bob

Yes, the damage in some parts of Vermont was pretty bad, my sister lives in the Rutland area and they're OK but a great deal of damage near them.

As to the list, was out on a US Navy Destroyer couple of weeks ago, I noticed that the ship had a slight list and asked one of the bridge officers about it, first he was surprised I'd noticed, and then he said the ship had a standard list of between 1-2 degrees, always had it. Thinking about it afterwards should have asked them why they didn't trim it out.

Cheers Phil

[RHClarke]

The long weekend in Canada is about to end. The weather in the Ottawa area was unsettled with no shortage of rain. Saturday was fantastic but hot by our standards: 31oC by 1100 hrs. Sunday had its moments and today was quite overcast. However; the weather did not keep the boys from the barn (well, except for Bob, who spent Saturday and Sunday either on a photography or pornography course - not sure which...).

I joined Grant for CMP work on Saturday. He had the barn to himself on Sunday, and today Bob joined us. After catching up on the news of the CMP world, we got down to brass tacks. Grant's focus has been on shimming his steering and working on his brakelines. Bob played with his support rod while I played with my HUP's rear sliding windows.

Bob reworked his support rod and it now looks ready for installation. Will it fit? Time will tell. Grant tested his brake system today and apart from two small leaks which were quickly sorted out, all looks goods. Next step - engine! It is great to see the progress on Grant's truck frame.

The HUP rear window frames - These are interesting items. Each frame with glass weighs in at about 30 pounds. There is one fixed pane and one sliding pane of glass with a small tab handle to make opening and closing easier. The metal frame has a flange that rests against the skin of the HUP. It has 16 fine thread, pan head, slotted machine screws. The top six screws screw into a U shaped metal channel that is welded to the top inside of the window opening. There are six screws on the bottom flange and two on each side flange. As I had replaced all of the sheet metal from the cab rearward, new holes had to be drilled and tapped for both window frames. This turned out to be a fairly easy task, except for one screw that wants to go in on an angle.

U Channels - The U channels had moved somewhat due to rust wedging, so I cut them out, ground off the rust and repainted them. Once the paint was dry the channel was loosely screwed to the top flange. The window frame was reinserted into the opening and the side and lower flange screws were inserted drawing the frame nice and snug to the outside metal. The next step was to reweld the U channels back into place. Once done the top flange screws were tightened. A quick blast of black paint over the screw heads, and that task was done.

Weatherproofing - The original windows had a thin piece of rubberized material lining the opening. While it did manage to reduce vibration, its design tended to trap moisture which in turn caused rust to build up. The restoration of the window frame has already been covered somewhere in this Hammond Barn thread, so I won't bore you with the details. Instead of using the rubber, the window opening and the corresponding surfaces on the window frame were given a coating of black silicone sealant and a good sized bead of the same. The small spaces between the window frame and the body were also given a silicone treatment. Short of total submergence, that should keep the moisture out.

The window war is by no means complete. I have to reattach a fully assembled window frame on the driver's side and re-assemble the pax side and side door window frames. The hold up is finding the channel for the sliding glass. I know I have a good length of it hiding somewhere in the barn. The trick is to find it. What will probably happen is I will buy another length from our friend John G and magically, the other piece will show up.

Next Project - Once the door mounted windows are completed the next project is to find a solution to the rear door dilemma. The rear door has puzzled us all. I am guessing that there were special hinges for the rear door - I don't know for sure as my HUP did not have the OEM hinges when I go it. Instead, three large barn hinges were gorilla welded to the door and sheet metal. They worked but looked like hell.

The hinges that I have fit the original openings in the door and in the frame. Once attached they do not afford enough clearance for the door to close. The door binds where the door frame meets the frame of the opening on the hinge side. We figure that we need at least another 1/4 inch of clearance in order for the door to close properly.

Since HUP rear door hinges are as rare as rocking horse dirt, I am tempted to improvise. My solution would be to take the existing hinges and modify them. Once taken apart, I plan to cut down the body side hinge arm and then weld it to 1/4 inch plate that will fit into the frame opening. The plate will provide the needed off-set and in theory the door should shut without binding. Bob is still thinking about the problem. Any other approaches?

This sort of challenge is what keeps us coming back to the barn as much as possible.

Photos
1 - Inside of the HUP - the freshly tack welded U channel is on top of the window frame. The screw holes in the top of the window frame are for the metal bar that holds on the black out curtains.
2 - The other side window - the tab above the windows is one of the mounts for the horizontal rifle rack.
3 - The installed window and author self-portrait.
4 - HUP starting to look a little more complete.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Rob

Concerning the rear door hinges on the HUP, this week I'll be working on refitting the doors on my HUP this week and will take a real close look at the fit issues and the profiles of the hinges. I did succeed in finding a spare set that look to be a good match though they are drilled for a different bolt pattern.

As I think has been already discussed putting in new bushings and pins is the first step to get rid of the play in the hinge.

I'll check my disassembly photos but I'm pretty sure that my rear hinges had to be shimmed with wedge when I restored the truck the first time 30 years ago.

Really a shame that Mac Auto is 350 miles from you and 400 miles from me, there are a whole bunch of parts I'd like to take out there and see if they are a match for stuff they have on the shelf. Take a look the Model A hinge sets.

Cheers Phil