Australian Combat 6 Willys jeep

[warren brown]

Hello Brains Trust!
This is not strictly military - but I'm helping out my brother and I told him someone, out of the vast collective wisdom of the MLU forum might have an idea. We've been trawling civilian jeep sites about this, but we haven't had particularly clear answers.
My brother recently bought on ebay, a CJ5 Combat 6 jeep.
As I understand it, during the '50s and '60s Willys Motors had an assembly plant in Brisbane, Queensland - and as part of some local input agreement, there was some sort of requirement for Australian content - and a deal was struck with Ford Australia, fitting CJ5s with six-cylinder Ford Falcon engines (initially 144 ci OHV). These were linked up with specific bell-housings to the standard three-speed CJ5 jeep gearbox and drive train. I understand these jeeps arrived as CKD kits and were converted to RHD upon assembly (from various accounts, the build quality wasn't exactly marvellous).
The result was known as the Combat 6 - with its own special Combat 6 decals on the side of the body - and contemporary print advertising played heavily on the Willys jeep's wartime record. Over about a ten-year stretch, more than 600 Combat 6 jeeps were built in Australia.
The jeep my brother bought was an unfinished project - originally a Combat 6 but about to be monstered - tractor-sized tyres, V8 etc - but he is determined to bring it back to as original - or standard - as a Combat 6 could be.
The vehicle is very sound, but on closer inspection - there are a few things that don't add up - and Brisbane Willys jeep records are less plentiful than the Dead Sea Scrolls.
This is really for post-war jeep experts and if anyone has any ideas - they would be most welcome.

1. There is an ID plate on the firewall - (in the attached photos, clearly re-riveted) - the numbers of which don't seem to comply with what we've been looking at on civilian jeep websites listing production codes.
According to these codes, the first four numbers, 8305 make sense - they designate the jeep as a CJ5 with an open body - but if you follow the other numbers, they don't seem to make ay sense. Reading these numbers should indicate year model and LHD etc. and if you are imaginative with the numbers we have, (compared with official numbers) - the jeep's actual date of manufacture narrowed down to probably either 1959 or 1965 (!)

2. Also, according to US civilian jeep websites, there should be serial numbers stamped on top of the chassis rail - but we can't find numbers in the defined locations.

3. Lastly - should the front suspension have the hanging c-shaped shackle at the front like a WWII jeep- or trailing. There is so much bumpf about spring shackle conversion / reversa on the net.

Many thanks anyone, Warren,,,

Attached - photo of the jeep the day it was picked up, the ID plate and the Ford Falcon - Willys bell housing. Cheers.

[Mike K]

Warren

Maybe worth asking the guy who runs the CJ3B web site in Canada.....he is a wealth of info . On his site are various Australian references to do with the Brisbane assemby plant.

http://www.film.queensu.ca/cj3b/World/Australia.html

I recall at one stage they were using AMC Rambler engines in the local RHD CJ6 ? . Would have been late 1970's when Bill Patterson was the Victorian distributor. I had a new one on loan for 2 weeks while my WW2 Jeep was loaned to Bill Patterson motors for the Melbourne motor show at the exhibition building.
Mike

[Local Chap]

Originally Posted by warren brown

Hello Brains Trust!
As I understand it, during the '50s and '60s Willys Motors had an assembly plant in Brisbane, Queensland - and as part of some local input agreement, there was some sort of requirement for Australian content - and a deal was struck with Ford Australia, fitting CJ5s with six-cylinder Ford Falcon engines (initially 144 ci OHV). These were linked up with specific bell-housings to the standard three-speed CJ5 jeep gearbox and drive train .

I don't know much about your brother's jeep other than what you have posted, but just wanted to add a bit more to the Jeep/Ford partnership. The "Jeep" parent company had a potted history, and at the time of the Combat 6 CJ5 was owned by Kaiser, the Australian operations of which went belly up in the late 60's. They were declared bankrupt while still owing Ford Australia payment for the Aussie-sourced engines. To recoup part of the debt, Ford took possession of Kaiser Australia's remaining stock of gearboxes, transfers and diffs/axles and used them to create 432 4wd XY Falcon Utilities.

Ford had sold standard 2wd XY Falcon Utes to the Aust Army and thought there might be a market to sell them a 4wd version. Unfortunately, the Aust Army had already discounted the Jeep vehicle in earlier trials and was not interested in anything using a Jeep drivetrain. They were sold on the civilian market, but were not a commercial success.

Following the collapse of Kaiser Australia in 1969, there was not a Jeep assembly presence in Australia until the then owner of the Jeep brand, American Motors, re-opened a brisbane factory in 1980.

There is one of these 4wd Falcons listed (and pictured) in a clearing sale already mentioned on this forum, the sale at Louth: http://www.landmarkharcourts.com.au/...gSales/View/29

Anyway, back to your brother's CJ5!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by warren brown

3. Lastly - should the front suspension have the hanging c-shaped shackle at the front like a WWII jeep- or trailing. There is so much bumpf about spring shackle conversion / reversa on the net.

Warren,

Sounds like an interesting and rare Jeep - good thing it will be preserved in its original configuration.

Re. the spring shackle: civilian CJ-5's (shown below) had the pivoting one at the front, it's military cousin the M38A1 had it at the rear.



Regards,
Hanno

[warren brown]

Thanks everyone - a fascinating history - everything helps in piecing together the story of this odd Willys jeep offshoot. You're right Hanno - it is an interesting jeep - this Australian sideline in the jeep story is one of those things that could just disappear into the ether due to 50 years of indifference - and suddenly become important when they're all gone - and I'm really pleased my brother Gordon (yes, Gordon Brown and no, he wasn't Prime Minister of Great Britain - at least he didn't let on, but you never know...) is bringing it back to 'out of the box' condition.
Thanks for the sales brochure pic Mike (we'll check out the Canadian CJ3B website) and the clearing sale sure looks tempting - i remember those 4WD Falcon utes clearly, the suspension seemed monstrously jacked-up, with black steel wheels and enormous, cumbersome-looking free-wheeling hubs - and in the photo you can see the special '4 Wheel Drive' badge on the mudguard - certainly another interesting project.

[Mike K]

Warren

You might have the smaller bell housing in there . The 144 and 170 motors were 4 main bearing with mechanical valve lifters . From 1965 onwards (XM models) they went over to 7 main bearing with hydraulic lifters I think. They also changed the bell housing for the 221 motors. A 250 would really make it hoot along !

Mike

[aj.lec]

Originally Posted by warren brown

i remember those 4WD Falcon utes clearly, the suspension seemed monstrously jacked-up, with black steel wheels and enormous, cumbersome-looking free-wheeling hubs - and in the photo you can see the special '4 Wheel Drive' badge on the mudguard - certainly another interesting project.

By memory I think they used Jeep Gladiator running gear
Motor is mounted on a slant with a degree casting block on the carby
Missed out on buying one by 4 hours at $3K a few years ago
Pretty sure they came out with a 250 motor

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Local Chap

There is one of these 4wd Falcons listed (and pictured) in a clearing sale already mentioned on this forum, the sale at Louth: http://www.landmarkharcourts.com.au/...gSales/View/29

Don't forget the pictures

[warren brown]

Too right Hanno - sorry I didn't put the photo up! Mike you're right - it is the smaller bell housing. My brother and I picked up a 170 (the Pursuit170!) motor on Saturday to rebuild. The old 144 that came with the jeep had been bored out so much the cylinders were outside the block. (well...). You're right about the earlier, smaller motors fitting the bell housing and Gordon opted to go more or less with a smaller motor - but a 170 is a better thing than a 144. I didn't know about the Gladiator gear in the Falcon ute - I've always liked the Gladiator - growing up with Daktari did it for me . But I've heard they have an abominable turning circle... (I have a C60X so I know about these things...)

[Ganmain Tony]

Just a punt Warren, but you may do better contacting Ford Motor Company. They are pretty good when it comes to records.

VIN numbers and engine numbers will help the process of course.

The 200ci 'Super pursuit' would make her go like a scalded cat

[warren brown]

Tony - I'm with you - but I'm a mere GMC straight six owner - not a flat-head Ford V8 owner. (but there's always room yet!) I'll talk to my brother and see what he thinks - and pass on your unmitigated enthusiasm to make the Combat 6 go like ....'whatever' off a shovel. Here's to blue and white!

[Ryan]

Here's a link to a discussion on the XY ute on Ford Forums with good pics of the ute including it's engine bay.

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11259746

[warren brown]

Ryan - that's unreal!!!!

[warren brown]

Sorry Tony - I left a bit off. Will follow up on the Ford archives. Many thanks.

[warren brown]

...and Local Chap - I didn't thank you properly. Mate - fantastic information and invaluable!

[Ryan]

Do want need another for parts?

http://www.whatsinyourpaddock.com.au/ads/157

In NSW

[John Mackie]

Warren , I have been involved with Falcons since the 1960's, The small bell housing used on the 144, 170 and some 200's matches up to the GPW and CJ3 gearbox. It was an alloy housing, The 200/250engines with big end block used a cast iron housing and a 3 speed all syncro box with a bigger bolt pattern. During the late XY period and the change to the XR there were many changes 200/250. small / big end block , 4 or 7 main bearings. Ford also brought in about 200 american engines with non interchangble main bearings. Good luck with the project,
John.

[warren brown]

John, that's great!! The thrust bearing therefore : do you know - is that a Ford part or a Willys (Dana) part? (Excuse my ignorance!). The bearing is pressed onto the steel sleeve, which is cracked - same question - is that a Falcon or a Dana part. And is this sleeve obtainable? Sorry if I sound like a dill....

[warren brown]

Ryan - will check it out. Many thanks.

[John Mackie]

Hi Warren.
re clutch thrust race and bearing. Many years ago i fitted a 144 falcon engine into a CJ3. i used the falcon clutch, clutch housing and release bearing, i cannot remember how i got the clutch linkage to work but it must have! the CJ3 bieng rh drive would have made not too difficult.
the falcon thrust bearing is the as the GPW. i have just had a look in Macs catologue ,they list the bearing (74 75870) but not the carrier.you may have to try a Ford dealer. i dont know how far up the early type t.r carrier comes i THINK it may be the same up to about XC model.
please keep us posted on your progress.

John.

[warren brown]

Thanks John. Great info, we'll get onto it - my brother's in the process of joining MLU - he's particularly grateful for the interest everyone's had in the Combat 6 and he's keen to thank everyone. (I'm about to launch into the Scout Car's restoration so I'll need to pick your brains before too long).
Cheers Warren.

[AUSM38A1]

Hi everyone ..Warren im not sure but i might be telling you stuff your brother already knows if this is the same jeep http://www.ausjeepoffroad.com/forum/...d.php?t=106426

i think he is turning it into a tuxedo park style jeep?But this is the lttle i know about the combat 6 which came out in cj5s and cj6s

1. with the serial plate it will show the date the body was made in the U.S but it probably wasnt assembled by willys australia and turned into a combat 6 till years after.

2. some didnt get stamped but it could be hiding some where else

3. from the photo it looks like it has its oringinal style front shackles

Some combats had the spare on the bonnet which didnt happen on the U.S jeeps some had a fiberglass shroud for the protrusion of the motor into the fire wall..some came with australian made borg warner gearboxs and diffs all had the dana spicer transfer case the rear BW diff is identified by having 1piece axles and not having the big nut or dust cap also they all came with 5.38 diff ratios so the ford motor is reving very high at 45/50mph ...There is a guy out this way with a very original combat 6 cj5 and he knows alot more about them i can pm you his number if gordon hasnt already talked to him..here is a period photo of a combat 6 cj5

thanks mick

[AUSM38A1]

Also heres some more brochures hes prob already got them but..



also there was the overlander came out abit later and was the ute version

[warren brown]

Mick, thanks so much for this - those photos of the Brotherhood of St Paul missionaries are fantastic!
I love how someone thought by putting the tyre on the bonnet, it makes the jeep an equal market competitor to the Land Rover - and lo and behold - there's a Rover - with the tyre on the bonnet for comparison!
Thank you for the link - and yes that is my brother - he's thoroughly enjoying the detective work for the Combat 6 - but for some reason he's still having trouble with his registration for the MLU site activating.
As for the ads - the photo of the CJ6 and CJ5 in profile - gawd they look primitive things!
Again many thanks for your help everyone - post more pictures soon. Warren.

[warren brown]

Sorry Mick - if you could PM that number it'd be great - cheers W.

[Stuart Kirkham]

Theres a Combat 6 Jeep on Australian ebay at the moment

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1966-CJ-6...item1c1d3001ef

Accompanying narration -

Willys 1966 CJ 6 Jeep. One of only 604 factory converted Combat 6 Jeeps ever produced. These jeeps were imported from the USA to the Australian Willys factory in Queensland as a CJ 5, the chassis was factory extended to CJ 6 specifications, a 12 volt electrical system added along with a Falcon 6 cylinder (this one an original configuration 170ci). According to Company records, there were only 604 total CJ6's including utes, soft tops, hard tops, etc, converted by Willys, and this is one of them. The rest are either rusted out, or butchered beyond recognition. That makes this one a rare find for the jeep enthusiast. The engine, gearbox (three speed dana spicer T90 and T18 transfer box) are original and rebuilt, the diffs are original and rebuilt, steering box, brakes, tailshafts, all original and rebuilt.

It was used as my daily work car in the country, it went under full restoration in 1998 when it was knocked back on rego for shackle rubbers, and has finally been finished in 2010 (I was in no hurry) I have restored it to as close to original specifications as I could. Chassis was sandblasted and painted, minor body rust repaired and jeep painted in two-pack enamel. It has new original spec wheels and brand new bar tread 6 X 16 inch tyres (fitted in 2010) The original seat has been rebuilt and re-upholstered. New wiring, original speedometer, aftermarket other instruments. Just about every nut and bolt replaced with quality newbies. New laminated windscreen and frame. Brand new Bestop soft top with doors, It is registered and has current RWC. She runs well, looks great, and is now once again my everyday work car. Heaps of restoration photos and receipts.

I have a new project - a 1965 International Scout 80 I want to start restoring, so the Jeep has to go as I need the cash.

[Gordon Brown]

Woohoo! I'm in!

G'day to you all.

Many thanks to Warren for kicking this discussion off and to everyone else who has helped out and contributed. I have been watching in agony from the sidelines, unsuccessfully trying to log in and join the discussion, until Hanno from the MLU site fixed me up yesterday. I had stuffed it up somehow but all is sunshine now.

I'll have to go back to the thread to respond to particular things. At the moment I have the engine and gearbox out, as Warren said, and the bonnet/mudguards/grill out. I'm enrolled in the local tech college night classes for auto body work and engine rebuilding. So: getting the body panels a bit smoother than they were/are, because I'm going after a better finish. The PO was going to build it into a rock crawler with huge wheels and tyres, so wasn't so concerned about the body. I'm looking for more of a period rebuild, which will mean sourcing steel wheels of the size and style the early CJ5s had when new. The engine (Ford 170cu) we will strip down and rebuild what is necessary. Will redo the valve seats to run unleaded petrol while we're at it.

Stuart, I have been watching your CJ6 Combat 6 on Ebay, and would love to have had a look at it before you moved to Queensland (?). It looks such a great job.

Cheers,

Gordon

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Gordon Brown

Many thanks to Warren for kicking this discussion off and to everyone else who has helped out and contributed. I have been watching in agony from the sidelines, unsuccessfully trying to log in and join the discussion, until Hanno from the MLU site fixed me up yesterday. I had stuffed it up somehow but all is sunshine now.

Gordon,

Glad you made it here (finally) - welcome!

Exciting project you have going there, you are to be commended for taking on such a rare vehicle.

Regards,
Hanno

[warren brown]

Welcome Gordon - about time!

[warren brown]

This photo has popped up for sale on ebay. It's a Ford promo press photo from 1972 - on the back it has written Ford Motor Co. This might sound a bit naiive - but did I didn't know Ford build CJ5s. You can see the photo's been published and printed somewhere - it has hand-drawn crop marks and a bit of brush retouching. Does anyone know much about this?