New to me C60L's

[Ken Smith]

Thanks for the information David. I think I love the research as much as the the whole chase, doing the deal and getting the babies back into a safe home.I was only thinking the other day that at least 5 of my trucks have come from farmers that bought trucks straight after the war and used them carefully and wanted the trucks to go to someone who would look after them.I still had to pay for all of them and quite a bit for 2 of them.This sort of ties in with Keiths handing it down thread and I feel it is a big responseability keeping safe ,trucks that have served our countries in war and peace.I seem to have got off track there, but seeing the looks on the farmers faces when they see the way their old trucks are tucked up in my shed or in a parade or at a reunion makes me happy.All of the farmers have gone to great lengths to make sure I have every part they have ever taken off the truck and they have all given me photo's and the history of where and when and how they got what to some of them was their first car.
Cheers Ken

[Ganmain Tony]

Stop tormenting us Ken, it sounds like a fantastic purchase!!

Photo's man! photo's!!

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Absolutely!!!

[Ken Smith]

Good day friends,

Well after three and a half years my C60L is home. I have now had a chance to examine the truck with my glasses on and with a magnifying glass and a few things are a bit strange.

First the engine has been changed a couple of times in the army life of the truck, the engine number on the data plate is DR4014304, the engine number in the War Memorial book is DR3750990, the engine in the truck is DR4014613, and is painted deep bronze green and I guess it is a army rebuild. I am happy with all that as the engine runs very sweetly.

There are about 6 different notations about repairs and reclassification stencilled under the bonnet/hood they start in 1953 and go up to Dec 1955, all with Northern Command, Queensland.

The manufactured date is 5-5-45 IND, originally I thought it was 1ND but now I am not so sure, funny thing the dashes between the 5-5-45 are actually the number 1 lying on its side. Could this truck have been made for India ? It was supplied under SM 6404.

The truck is deep bronze green as you would expect, and the paint is polishing up reasonably well for 60 year old paint, the ARN 77821 is painted on the top of the front clip, 3 times in 3 different styles, but on the bottom layer of brownish paint is the number 4004, it is stencilled on and done very well, quite thick, it is possible that there are numbers before the first number 4 but there is no room for anything after the last number 4. Could this be a Indian registration number? I will add at this stage that the ARN 77821 and the chassis number 4-8443-71597 tally with the ledgers at the Memorial.
Mike C has said that the Australian army sometimes kept other country registration numbers, my cab 12 C60L, AIF L4710841 being one of them, but this other registration they didn't keep.

There is a Holden badge on the engine cover, but that is the only connection to the truck being built in Australia. It doesn't have a CWO plate.

When the gentleman got me the information from the War Memorial he didn't understand a lot of the stuff he wrote down for me, therefore it is a bit hit and miss, he normally researched biographical data, and it would have been nice to know if my truck was a orphan or if it was in a bigger group of similar C60L,s.

I have taken a few before photos to put in the restoration section, but I would like to get some thoughts on this information first.

I know I am to excited and reading to much into a bit of paint.

Cheers Ken

[Keith Webb]

There are many differences between Canadian and Holden build trucks Ken, some of the most obvious are the Holden cab which differs in many details including the cowl vent being rectangular, windscreen frames having a slightly curved profile rather than flat like the Ford ones here, a smooth floor, doors without the round pressing in the centre of the inside pattern, and on the chassis the vehicle's chassis number is usually stamped on the left forward chassis rail.

I don't think I've ever encountered a 'DR' engine prefix, they are usually 'PR' or 'SR'.

On the date plate on top of the dash (another Aust practice) the Holden plant for assembly is also normally stamped after the chassis number, usually a single letter, M, S, B, P.

Interesting to hear about the under bonnet nomenclature. Let's see some of the pics in this thread as well, in particular the data plate.

[Ken Smith]

Good day Keith ,
It is a Canadian cab, it has all the things like checker floor, different vents, round hole in the top of the cab, windscreens different, I have several Australian 13 cabs both early and late so I know it is not an Australian cab.

I didn't know the bit about the vin plates on the dash being an Australian thing though, all the holes for the plates are in the engine cover, I wondered what was missing as the truck is so original, but if they have been shifted up to the top of the dash that makes sense.

The left hand chassis rail is marked like this,

4X8443- which according to David Hayward should be X48443-
71597
SM 6404 I have never seen a contract number on a chassis before

Photos coming .

Cheers Ken

[Keith Webb]

On reading your other posts I now realise this, it must have a fascinating story to tell, there are very few Canadian build Chevrolets in Australia apart from a few early post-war imports such as the C8AX.

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

SM 6404 I have never seen a contract number on a chassis before

It's possible this was Indian practice Ken. The only other example I'm aware of myself is Lauren Child's mysterious "F22" in the UK, which was contracted to India around mid '45: C291Q.L-W under SM6389 was for Tractor 4x4 FA W/Out Winch C291Q for India, 350 vehicles. Build date is 12 Nov 45, and while it's my belief it was built in India, others are of the view it was diverted to the UK.

Here are some more pics of foreign built C60L in Australian use in Japan, alongside Australian built CMPs. The one at the collapsed roadway appears to be ex-Indian Army (full length wooden body) while the other one appears to be ex-British Army (steel body & spare wheel carrier):

HOBJ0344 Japan c January 1950 BCOF.jpg P01813.119 Okayama, Honshu, Japan, 1947-12-16. Members of the Transport Platoon, 67th Infantry .jpg

Gratuitous but rather good pics of late production Australian F60S tipper in action (Ford diff visible):

HOBJ0346 F60S tipper Japan c January 1950.jpg HOBJ0347 F60S tipper Japan c January 1950 BCOF.jpg

Regarding your Holden built engine cover Ken, presumably this got swapped at some stage during Australian service, possibly even in Japan.

Regarding your ARN 77821, the block 77001-79000 was originally allocated to New Armoured Vehicles (notified in Mechanization Circular No.307 of 4 March 1942) and it's my understanding that unused serials from earlier block allocations were used on vehicles acquired later overseas. I imagine Mike C can provide more info on this practice.

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

on the bottom layer of brownish paint is the number 4004, it is stencilled on and done very well, quite thick, it is possible that there are numbers before the first number 4 but there is no room for anything after the last number 4. Could this be a Indian registration number?

Very likely IMO Ken, as I happen to believe your vehicle is ex-Indian Army. If that's true, then you've found the last 4 digits of the rego. The later Indian numbering system comprised the DoD broad arrow followed by two small digits, followed by 4 large digits (ie. 4004 in your case). Try rubbing back the upper area of the doors, you may find the entire Indian registration number. Also the bumper bar, on the RH end or in the centre. These are the usual locations for Indian registration numbers, however I've also seen them on the front shell occasionally.

It's my belief that quite a few ex-Indian Army CMPs found their way to Australia, probably including my own first blitz pictured below in 1973, and a number of late production FGTs identified in Australia recently. I have a couple of theories as to how this may have occurred, one of them being ex-BCOF vehicles, acquired in Japan when other forces departed. BCOF initially comprised Australian, British, Indian, and NZ forces, but by late '48 only Australia remained, and it appears they inherited quite a few foreign CMPs left behind, which can be seen amongst their own Australian built CMPs. Some of these went on to the Korean war in 1950, many of which would have returned to Australia following armistice in '53, while those remaining in Japan would have returned with the BCOF, which finished up in '52. That would tie in with your post war Northern Command service records, which BTW have also been found under two FGT8 bonnets, formerly NT Force vehicles.

I'll dig up some photos to illustrate the above possibility. I'm very much hoping you find Indian Army rego on this vehicle, as proof positive they exist in Australia.

tonyblitz 104.jpg

[Tony Wheeler]

Check out this one Ken - does the 7775 on the front shell reflect your 4004 placement?

Sea of Japan, 1950-09-28. Members of the 3rd Battalion, The Royal Australian Regiment (3RAR), sit and stand on top of military trucks on the deck of the United States troopship Aiken Victory which is transporting the battalion from Kure in Japan to Pusan and the war in Korea.


P01813.874.jpg

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler

Check out this one Ken - does the 7775 on the front shell reflect your 4004 placement?

Sea of Japan, 1950-09-28. Members of the 3rd Battalion, The Royal Australian Regiment (3RAR), sit and stand on top of military trucks on the deck of the United States troopship Aiken Victory which is transporting the battalion from Kure in Japan to Pusan and the war in Korea.


Attachment 69350

Good day,
I gave my Indian C60L a wipe over the rubbed back ARN today with my leather work glove, the rough glove seemed to shift the little bits of paint that have flaked since I polished it a couple of years ago.

In really good sunshine and with the angle I was looking at it the original registration number stood out very clearly, it is 501004. No photo as I had to look across the paint to read it. The Indian registration is on twice including on the original paint. There is no vertical arrow prefix, nor is there room for one on the second level of paint. I can't see the beginning of the first original registration, some of the Korean War pictures I have seen in the 6 digit series don't have the arrow.

I am searching the 4500 BCOF photos on the AWM site, no useful registration numbers yet. I have done the AWM Korean war ones and the closest I can get are registration numbers 497775, 497749, 497740, 497592, 483785, 463833. I am confident that my truck was in the Indian Army, as my numbers are the same style as the photos on the AWM.
If anyone spots a 5***** registration number on a Indian vehicle I would be interested in seeing it.

Cheers Ken