Bombardier ILTIS

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by Marc Montgomery

ex CDS Rick Hillier owns a restored Iltis

Rick probably spent most of his time in the Passenger Seat and not under the Hood, or running around looking for a Slave Cable

[Scott Bentley]

Marc,

At the end of the day, wether its good, bad or otherwise, if your happy with your Iltis, thats all that should matter.

I poured my heart and soul into a MUTT with all of its design flaws and lacking real collector value as its "Cut". At the end of the day, its what I wanted to own. I wouldn't expect someone who rolled one, froze on winter Ex doing Radio Watch in one, or torched them in half wanting to run out and own one anymore than I would want an Iltis.

It doesn't make it any less of an MV worthy of preserving.

The fact that psuedo off-roaders are soaking them up doesn't really surprise me. Compared to a new Quad, they are still pretty cheap and fairly well equipped for some weekend warrior woods action. As you said, you can highway drive them home. They are still new enough that Engines and Driveline are holding up. Once these components start failing in quantity, they'll go to the same fate as many 38s, 38A1s and 151's did, rusting in fields and behind sheds. How they stack up to an M38, M38A1 or a 151A2 off-road really seems like a moot point really to me now. Most serious restorers or collectors aren't pushing them to their limits cross-country.

Scotty

[rob love]

Having owned many M38 and M38A1s over the years, along with one Mutt for over a decade, I can say that hands down the M38 was the best, closely followed by the A1s. The 5:38 gearing made it great for hill climbing and rock crawling. The reason why I would suggest the M38 as the best despite it's it's lack of the 12hp increase of the A1 was it's flat hood gave unbelievable visibility when navigating difficult terrain. As well, it's shorter wheelbase meant less likelihood of getting hung up on barriers.

The M151A2s best quality was it's relatively modern engine and a decent highway speed, but these were not cross country attributes. It's weaknesses were those dozen U joints, a marginal gearbox, and overly simplistic design of the rear suspension hangers. It was not geared to hill climb. Over hood visibility was good; similar to an M38.

The Iltis had great highway speed, and could push snow fairly well with it's capability to lock up the rear diff, but the low skidplate made sure you didn't go too far into the snow. In sand, even on level ground, they were pathetic. As to hill climbing, the only way you could do it was with extreme speed. Luckily, the rotor acted as a governor to prevent the engines from over revving once the vehicle became airborne. We actually had complaints from the RCRs that the engines would cut out when the trucks flew.

[Matthew Reid]

And really you need to count all Ilti. One of mine the previous owner used it for off roading, but it was not beat to crap either he sold it when it started to run like crap and could not figure out what was wrong with it.

The Iltis more than any other CF Mil vehicle to date from when disposal of went in to the hands of collectors. There are more Mil vehicle collectors now than ever before. The Iltis likly could be the most commonly found preserved former Canadain Mil vehicle in the future.

Yes they are not the most reliable units and are a typical Volkswagen of the era. The Fact that they are a Volkswagen also allows them to cross over to the Volkswagen crowd, as there are several that have been bought and restored back to CF service colours by Volkwagen collectors.

You should see the starting condition of some of the units that have been restored especially in Eastern Canada, some that were as far as I'm concerned were rusted far to badly to be slavaged, but they were. Also there have been several that were disposed of for parts that have been restored and put back on the road. Rust will be the biggest killer for restoring the Iltis down the road, As they are very rust prone, but a few mods and some modern rust proofing compounds will quickly solve the issues.


The other advantage the Iltis has is it's rather high transaction price on the used market. Most bought for off roading will be sold off once they need repairs and or the novelty has worn off with owner. (as was the case with my 85) .

Far far fewer Ilti will be be woked to death in post CF service and left to rot in a feild as was the case with most former CF wheeled vehicles.

Ilti tend fetch good dollars on the used market making them less likly to sit and rot in a feild or be scrapped as was the case with many M135's M37's and Jeeps in years past.

The Iltis is a more usable vehicle on road than any other former CF vehicle save for the CUCV's. So that appeal will pull more individuals in to the hobby to preserve and restore them. That is exactly what brought me in to it.

Parts comonality for most drive line stuff is avalible from civilian vehicles, I imagine what will be difficult to find in future will be sheet metal spares.

Yes they represent a time of cut backs in CF but they are also in the last generation of Candian built soft skin wheeld vehicals to serve in the CF. From here on out we likly will never see another wide use wheeled CF vehicle built in Canada.
And for that reason alone they have a special place in CF vehicle collections.

I do think that the Iltis has a really good shot of being the most widly preserved former CF vehicle in the future.

Matthew

[Marc Montgomery]

Scottys point about the cicurit breaker demonstrates again, that to the average citizen there's little difference among all 1/4t models...they're all "jeeps" and one is like another right? ...as a point..when I had my 3-ton, no-one realized it was a 60yrold WWII vehicle, and francophone Quebeckeres often referred to it as my "gros jeep"- big jeep.

I suppose all MVs have/had their good points and drawbacks while in service, and these issues may or may not apply to them in collectors hands. Scotty rightly points out that offraod ability is of little importance since collectors almost never go offroad, or if so, only mildly so.

The Mutt is (IMHO) is equally as interesting as any other 1/4t vehicle, regardless of it being re-welded (arent there more re-welded than uncut?) I think they're kinda neat looking too.

There were certainly more of the M series jeeps built than Cdn Iltis-for example= 2,500
M-38= 45,000+, M38A1= 100,000+
and heck, with enough money, you can buy all the repop parts and build an MB-GPW almost 100% from scratch

** I sure would like to know my Iltis history as there were no detectable unit marking on the bumpers-I believe someone on the forum has access to CFR number-history?) **

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by Marc Montgomery

** I sure would like to know my Iltis history as there were no detectable unit marking on the bumpers-I believe someone on the forum has access to CFR number-history?) **

CFR Request Thread

Just post up your VIN/Serial Number from your (cough/choke ) Iltis on that threadf and i'll pull it for you. Your CFR as i'm sure you know, is the last 7 Digits in your VIN Number on an Iltis.

I'm falling a bit behind with the CFR Requests as my Unit has moved me to another new workspace and I havn't got EDR setup and running on the terminal in here.

Scotty

[Marc Montgomery]

suprisingly I dont see prices rising for the Mahindra jeep, mm550xd
or perhaps if you wanted to really confuse folks with something a tad bigger.
how about the Nissan 4W73 ..not a jeep of course...

used to be a Munga around Montreal (pre Iltis) but havent seen it lately, also a Munga was apparently for sale last year in Ontario, no price avail

[Marc Montgomery]

Well I guess thats a confirmation of one of my thoughts...ie.. that many of the finite supply of parts are being bought by people who have no interest in their military/Cdn history/heritage, and who are breaking parts in the woods and sandpits while bushwacking