Carrier Data plates

[George McKenzie]

This is one set of mixed up numbers .and little information ,but if we can post enough numbers we can solve this thing our selves .Thanks for the info sofar . this is what I know

Lower hull number at the back This is not on your plate but can be the same as your serial number or close to it ( my MK11) is the same CB number behind the gunners head Is less than the lower Hull number about 100numbers or less
HULL number about 500 less than the CB number or 100 more than the lower hull number
SERIAL number on the top right end of the front armor .read from the front.
Can be same as the lower hull number or up to 1000 different more or less
ENGINE number TL xxxx - F any where form 3 to 2000 over the lower hull number
CD A number the GOVE used to order a groupe of carriers also shown as WD number
BUILD DATE If you have 7 numbers for you CT number the last number will give you the month .You will have to compare other carriers to get this info
CT number is like a license number Painted on the sides and stamped on the front armor up to 6 numbers ect: CT25848.4 the 4 is MAR year
Front armor reading from the front should look like this ( serial)# 1944 APR CT25743.4 Nigel Watsons book VOL 1 has WD numbers and contract numbers Hope this is clear as mud will give you a start for your numbers George

[kevin powles]

Robe, That was fast getting that picture, Have you got one which is a little clearer, reason being I want to send the guy making the plates a picture of it as it is the same contract number as mine.

My CT is 163057, Build date of 1943 has a 5 in front of it so MAY.

This is what i plan to put on it. my hull number is badly corroded but the first two didgits are clear.

Model UCMK-2*
SERIAL 14567 HULL 13382
ENGINE TL - 7087F
CD-1555 BUILT MAY 43

Just as a note two id's on here are :


CT 163013, hull 12289, serial 13204 (described as front armour number).

CT 163035, hull 12290, serial 13295

Thanks Kevin.

[Jordan Baker]

You guys are really messing me up using different names for the same thing.

So just so Im clear on this. Im only talking about the Mk1 style of data tags as pictured below.

For the data tag, when it says "serial" this refers to the number stamped on the front armour after the date?

When is says "hull" is this the upper hull # or the lower hull #?

[kevin powles]

Jordan, glad you through that question in there, I think the serial is as you have described, but upper or lower hull number?, now i am confused. hope these help from the ford manual.

[kevin powles]

Hi, Found this written by Nigel, looks like its the upper hull CB number to be put on the data plate.

I'm glad to help with input if required. I mentioned to Richie that I had started a Register of Carriers in 2003 but time prevented its advance. I have 25 carriers on record, some have changed hands since then so everything requires to be started again I think.

The important information and terminology should be that laid down at the time of production as this is how it was stamped on the armour and recorded on the plates and ledgers.
This is (according to UC-F1 Manual):
Stamped on top edge of front armour in front of driver.
L-R viewed from front
1. WD.No. Beginning with T or CT (Maybe others)
2. Horizontal Arrow pointing right if present is the Government Inspection Board of the UK and Canada approval of the assembly and stowage of the vehicle.
3. A numeral designating the month of the year the vehicle was produced.
4. The year the vehicle was produced eg 1942
5. Manufacturers Logo (I have only seen Ford script but no others!).
6. Next is the Vehicle Serial Number
7. Arrow Approval Mark signifying vehicle approved after field tests completed.

Stamped on the plate:
Model: For a MkI it is UC-1
Serial: Is the Vehicle Serial Number
Hull: Is the number stamped on the angle iron behind the commander's seat, sometimes referred to as the Upper Hull No. by us!
Engine: Engine Number assigned by manufacturer, stamped on the top of the clutch housing under the mounting bracket for the oil cooler regulator valve and the top of the cylinder block at the right edge of the valve chamber cover.
Order: This is the Order Number or Contract Number for the vehicle. Many vehicles will share this number if made under the same Contract.We also have the number stamped in the rear which we call the Lower Hull Number, this should be logged as well just in case we find a link between the two 'hull' numbers in the future.

There also needs to be some way of logging in oddities! Different numbers/letters in non-standard places on carriers, like the 47 on my edge armour!

Some other thoughts to run at the same time:
a. Original Lettering that has been found under paint.
b. A log of all wartime WD Nos and associated Carrier Types with photo ref: be it in a publication, on film, from collection, on ebay...anywhere. (mammoth job but what a great reference source!)

Geoff is there anyway you could incorporate a form that we can access from MLU and be able to send to whoever is going to collate the information? That way if the form is done accurately it would be a question of collecting/saving the forms.

If I can work out how to take a picture of a MS Publisher Document that is on my computer I will upload what I had done in 2003.

Good Christmas to you all, and keep on the tracks!

Nigel

[Jordan Baker]

Thanks Kevin

After I posted my last posting, I found those pages in the manual. Basically I now need to find a upper hull # and an engine # for my data tag.

[George McKenzie]

Read what I posted about the numbers earlier The back lower number on the hull can be your serial number or very close to it . The date is stamped in the front armor in front of the driver . like" 3-25 1942" .It is not the last number in the serial number .It can be the last number of the CT or T number eg, CT 576934 The 4 would be the month . The CB number can be your serial number also ,behind the gunner or commander . If you have the CT number it will take some other information to get the numbers to put on your plate .The lower number will only be on the plate if it is the serial number .George

[derk derin]

Kevin,
I am glad I didn't send in my information yet! I thought the hull number was the one in the left rear corner angle iron.That is obviously the lower hull number.I wondered what they were refering to when upper hull number was being mentioned! I am back outside tommorrow with a flashlight to see if I can find the upper hull number.I AM getting closer as I read this thread.Keep the information coming as I may have interpreted other data wrong!
Thanks,Derk.

[Ralph Volkert]

People need to remember something. These were never meant to be numbers matching pieces of equipment. I don't know what the exact life span of a carrier was, once it was on the front but I doubt anyone was too worried about 70years later.

Production of the tub (Lower hull was 1 assembly)
drive train would be another and
upper hull was a third

In an ideal world production would be in sync and all the pieces would come together and the numbers would match. Didnt happen! they wanted volume pure and simple.

So most of the time numbers originally are all closely related but remember...it has been 70 years later.

Some machines were repaired, restored, perhaps battlefield repaired.
Some machines are a mix of 2 or 3 machines. So if all your numbers are close great. But look at your numbers and compare with those similar to yours. If your engine number is way off it is most likely not the original. If the CT number doesnt match your expected hull number range perhaps the armour in front of the driver was damaged and was changed out in the field or replaced by someone later down the road.

early engines where 55 hp. they wouldnt hold on to it for a 1000 carriers down the line and put it in when the new engines were now 75/90 hp. But to replace a blown motor I can see someone grabbing the 1st available spare.

Just do the best with what you have and remember you own a CARRIER! Dont sweat the little stuff. Just remember to indicate the numbers that are estimates so no one thinks that your data plate is gosple!