M38a1cdn

[rob love]

I don't have the exact changeover date, but I joined the reserves in 78, and the jeeps in the FGH already had several coats of paint by that point. The 5/4 tons came out in 76 and they too already had the cam pattern from the factory. The same cam pattern was used earlier but with white instead of one of the greens. Of the 30 M151A2s I bought, I only noticed the white pattern on one of them, so it was likely phased out by the mid 70s. As well, most of the 3/4 tons I saw had the white rather than the green.

There seemed to be a mix of the cam pattern with the white vs the solid semi gloss green depending on what unit the trucks were with. Comm squadrons in particular did not seem too quick to cam their vehicles.


Based on all this, I would guess at mid 70s for the change to 3 colors of green.

As to the colored tach signs, I believe they changed around the late 60s. Again, the comm squdrons seemed to keep their colored tach signs a lot longer. In fact the decals for the comm sqn tach signs were still available in the supply system not that many years ago.

[Scott Bentley]

Chris,

Little CFR update now that I have access to the better server:

Holding Unit History

As of 01-FEB-11

CFR No Departure Arrival HUIC Unit
08669* 06-May-83 04-Sep-79 0113* CFB Borden
08669* 04-Sep-79 01-Jan-70 0131* CFB LONDON
Modification History

As of 01-FEB-11

Modification History of CFR : 08669

Modification No Modification Complete Date Completed
30010000CF003* NO INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THIS MODIFICATION YES
30100000CF014* NO INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THIS MODIFICATION NO
30104000CF001* NO INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THIS MODIFICATION NO

Work Order Details

As of 01-FEB-11
CFR Number : 08669
Format Work Order Number SS Date Completed CIN HUIC Usage Qty Parts ($) Rebuild
5 L01086 29-Sep-78 551* 5009* 25814 1 0 NO
5 L05964 30-Nov-77 551* 2208* 0 1 0 NO
5 L05460 29-Aug-77 551* 5009* 22529 1 325 NO
5 L03992 30-Jun-77 551* 2208* 0 1 0 NO
5 L03182 14-Mar-77 551* 2208* 0 1 0 NO
5 L02883 21-Feb-77 551* 2208* 0 1 0 NO

Looking deep into the Maint records, it appears that this 38A1 actually belonged to 1 Hussars in London prior to going to Borden. Sadly, it appears much of the maint info was never entered, as i'm sure there was plenty more work and mods done to it prior to disposal. The disposal date was actually 9 Sept 88, so this made it one of the last to go to auction.

UPDATE: I bet these guys would be happy to see you turn it back into an Armd Recce Jeep that it most likely once was: http://www.firsthussars.ca/the-museum

Scotty

[chris vickery]

Scotty, thank you for the updates, any and all info is greatly appreciated.
Would I be correct in assuming a transfer to CFB Borden was likely the result of base closures in the late 80's? I believe CFB London saw closure around this time.
Armd recce sounds great, this is how it will apear, now require any and all info pertient to this unit. Perhaps some pics may be around of it in service!
Another interesting item is that I am wondering one of two things;
Either it was held in service until the last auction because
a) it was one of the better ones left or
b) it was one of the immobile scrap ones
Considering the shape it is in I am assuming (a) to be the case.

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by chris vickery

Scotty, thank you for the updates, any and all info is greatly appreciated.
Would I be correct in assuming a transfer to CFB Borden was likely the result of base closures in the late 80's? I believe CFB London saw closure around this time.
Armd recce sounds great, this is how it will apear, now require any and all info pertient to this unit. Perhaps some pics may be around of it in service!

Chris,

I'm no expert, but I'd say it likely went to Borden to accrue some mileage. Others like Rob can chime in, but if things in the late 70s - 80s are anything like now, they swap vehicles around to level the "fleet mileage". In the case of yours, it only accumulated 25k miles in 10 years, so it was probably sent to Borden to give another a break.

I was hesitant to mention it earlier, bit I've seen the pictures of this one when it was for sale and my gut tells me the Signals Decal and the Hood Markings were all done post disposal auction (albeit the CFR seems dead on). In this case you've got some proven provenance for an Armd Recce Unit, so bring on the "G-Pig" mount and wire cutter and get her back to her original "weekend" glory. Enjoy.

Scotty

[chris vickery]

Scotty, like I mentioned before, the former owner isn't available to give me a history on this post surplus so I can only assume some artistic license was taken on the markings for whatever reason.

It was licensed on the road for the past 20+ years so it must have had some sort of serial numbers at the time it was registered by the Ministry of Transportation Ontario. Of course it is an assumption but having a correct CFR number which just so happens to match a real VIN on the database leads me to believe that it is correct unless the former owner was a stickler for correctness or a real mv buff like the rest of us and pulled up a matched set. Not likely.

Considering that the other markings seem to be bogus, I think that the old owner had made it up as he wanted it, either he was a former CF member or just picked some marking out of thin air. As far as I can ascertain he just liked old stuff and this was his cottage jeep.

I will check with the MTO to see if they can tell me how long it has actually been registered in the system as it may shed light on things.

[chris vickery]

Heres a picture of the jeep

[chris vickery]

Another query Scotty as you seem versed in the CF system.
You have given me a holding unit history which is entered as 01 Jan 70 when this unit was entered into the system. Was this date an arbitrary date for all jeeps delivered under the CDN3 contract for the year 1970? My reason for asking is that 70-08669 would make it one of the first registered under the final contract. Are CFRs issued at random or sequentially upon delivery of vehicles from the manufacturer?

According to an older post by Rob Love for CFR number range, CDN3s started at 70-08500
Can you check other CFRs prior to mine to see if all units from 08500 to 08669 were entered as 01 Jan 70???

[chris vickery]

Originally Posted by armybuck041

Chris,

Little CFR update now that I have access to the better server:

Holding Unit History

As of 01-FEB-11

CFR No Departure Arrival HUIC Unit
08669* 06-May-83 04-Sep-79 0113* CFB Borden
08669* 04-Sep-79 01-Jan-70 0131* CFB LONDON
Modification History

As of 01-FEB-11

Modification History of CFR : 08669

Modification No Modification Complete Date Completed
30010000CF003* NO INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THIS MODIFICATION YES
30100000CF014* NO INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THIS MODIFICATION NO
30104000CF001* NO INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THIS MODIFICATION NO

Work Order Details

As of 01-FEB-11
CFR Number : 08669
Format Work Order Number SS Date Completed CIN HUIC Usage Qty Parts ($) Rebuild
5 L01086 29-Sep-78 551* 5009* 25814 1 0 NO
5 L05964 30-Nov-77 551* 2208* 0 1 0 NO
5 L05460 29-Aug-77 551* 5009* 22529 1 325 NO
5 L03992 30-Jun-77 551* 2208* 0 1 0 NO
5 L03182 14-Mar-77 551* 2208* 0 1 0 NO
5 L02883 21-Feb-77 551* 2208* 0 1 0 NO

Looking deep into the Maint records, it appears that this 38A1 actually belonged to 1 Hussars in London prior to going to Borden. Sadly, it appears much of the maint info was never entered, as i'm sure there was plenty more work and mods done to it prior to disposal. The disposal date was actually 9 Sept 88, so this made it one of the last to go to auction.

UPDATE: I bet these guys would be happy to see you turn it back into an Armd Recce Jeep that it most likely once was: http://www.firsthussars.ca/the-museum

Scotty

I just recently aquired the used vehicle information package on this one and note a slight discrepancy from your data Scotty, wondering if you may shed some light on it. It appears that my jeep was registered on 3 June 1988 by the civilian owner.

Your records indicate disposal 9 Sept 88. Would it be possible that the disposal records take a bit of time to be updated before being struck off of service following auction???

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by chris vickery

I just recently aquired the used vehicle information package on this one and note a slight discrepancy from your data Scotty, wondering if you may shed some light on it. It appears that my jeep was registered on 3 June 1988 by the civilian owner.

Your records indicate disposal 9 Sept 88. Would it be possible that the disposal records take a bit of time to be updated before being struck off of service following auction???

Its not my data Chris

I wouldn't get too concerned about the disposal date. Things like date purchased, date disposed and price sold for, are often generic for a good chunk of the fleet. Almost all of the info on these things was entered in the EDR Database years after they were used and sold. It still amazes me that they even took the time to enter it after the fact, especially the maintenance and mod info. In the case of yours though, the info was very sparse compared to most.

[Mike Baker]

Originally Posted by armybuck041

It still amazes me that they even took the time to enter it after the fact, especially the maintenance and mod info. In the case of yours though, the info was very sparse compared to most.

Sounds to me like entering all the data may have been a choice job or punishment for some wayward, under-employed PATs!

[rob love]

My memories of the paperwork in the early 80s was that things could be pretty hit or miss. With the introduction of time accounting in the 80s, things got a bit better overall, but still way too much latitude for problems. By the 90s, you would still find hard copy work orders lost in the filing cabinets under the completely wrong headings. Even in the last few years, you could order all kinds of things on the hard copy parts request, but only enter a portion of that into the computer.

The newest system is said to tie between the supply side, the transport side, and the maintenance side. If it works out, the collectors 30 years down the road may be able to access every last task and part that were charged against their collectible G wagon or LSVW.

Yes, it is amazing that we can access all this info on vehicles disposed of 25 years ago. But the army does run on paperwork, and always did things in triplicate.

[chris vickery]

Thanks Scotty, Rob. Scotty, I didn't lierally mean your data, guess I should have said the data researched and found by yourself. I appreciate the info and the work involved

I figured that even as Rob suggests, the army runs on paperwork but was always under the misguided concept that with all the t crossing and i dotting involved, that accuracy would have been the norm.... As Mike suggests, it may have been a pile of backlogged paperwork that a clerk had the tedious task of entering into the system. Or, as Scotty pointed out a sum of vehicles were lumped together.