Egypt / LRDG Patrol Truck Wreck

[Kuno]

After a fairly long absence, again something historical from my side if you like:

The only known LRDG patrol truck in Egypt sitting on the old route from Ain Dalla to Big Cairn. I had the chance to write a small article in a UK magazine's February '11 issue. Nice truck:



http://wuestenschiff.de/phpbb/userpi...010_3409_1.jpg http://wuestenschiff.de/phpbb/userpi...010_3418_1.jpg http://wuestenschiff.de/phpbb/userpi..._Veteran_1.jpg

[colin jones]

Wow, its amazing how well things stay so preserved in the desert. Other pics I have seen looks like constant sand blasting so rust can't get a chance to start.
Colin.

[lynx42]

Kuno,

Is that an F30S or an F60L? The tyre looks like a 10.50x16 sand tyre.

It is certainly an early Cab 11, with the lifting rings behind the bumper bar.

I have an early F30S Cab 11 with Chevrolet diffs here.

You have shown this one before, but it is a great artifact of WW11.

Regards Rick.

[Kuno]

It's an F30. And I have not shown it before as far as I know...

[lynx42]

Maybe on a different forum.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Nice find, Kuno!

Here are two more pictures found on the internet somewhere, reportedly taken in Egypt. Do you recognise them?

Here's hoping David H. can tell us more about L4629081.

Hanno

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

That's a Mid-East theatre number I think. I am guessing, after a bit of detective work, that it's a # 12 cab model EC01QF F60L deilvered to Alexandria under Demand S/M 2019. E.g. L 4713093, as per IWM PHOTO KID 2453 which had sand tyres.

[Kuno]

Hanno; I can confirm that the two above shown wrecks are lying in Egypt. I personally have not seen them yet...

...but would definitely like to.

Unfortunately, desert-travelling becomes more and more difficult these days. For Egypt, you do not only have to take a military officer wth you, as it was in recet years but - depending on where you want to go- between 4 and 8 additional armed policemen with two additional trucks and two additional drivers. These are definitely not conditions I am used to have and even want to have :-(.

[paul Lincoln]

A F30 is a F30. It's the F60 that is a L or S. Long has 12' body and short is a F30 with higher spring rating. The 11 Cab F30, as found by Kuno, had Marmon Harrington axles (i.e. Banjo)

Originally Posted by lynx42

Kuno,

Is that an F30S or an F60L? The tyre looks like a 10.50x16 sand tyre.

It is certainly an early Cab 11, with the lifting rings behind the bumper bar.

I have an early F30S Cab 11 with Chevrolet diffs here.

You have shown this one before, but it is a great artifact of WW11.

Regards Rick.

[paul Lincoln]

Just by co-incidence I received a set of photos blown up to A4 this week. They came via a SAS man and an ex LRDG navigator. They show oil workers in 1979 digging out a complete LRDG F30 patrol truck in fantastic complete condition. It had a full set of tilt irons on the body. The serial number on the tail board was 4406114 which puts it among the LRDG trucks delivered to them in 1941. The remaining colour scheme was of a splinter pattern as used by the Yeomanry patrol. The shadow on the photos shows that the truck was heading west when it was abandoned with steering problems. I hope to get a location shortly. On studying these shots and Kuno's the damage appears to be very similar on the wing and bumper. 154 army forms were found on the truck and 94 names have been identified as LRDG men.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

The serial number on the tail board was 4406114 which puts it among the LRDG trucks delivered to them in 1941.

Probably in the batch delivered under S/M 2003 direct to Alexandria.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Is that an F30S or an F60L?

The F30S and C30S designations were used it seems for the 1940 Models...it appears that after it became clear that no lwb versions would be ordered, they dropped the S suffix. I have yet to see any official paperwork on that though.

[Alex van de Wetering]

It is certainly an early Cab 11, with the lifting rings behind the bumper bar.

Yes, and the absence of the cab vent holes on the inner cowl.

it was abandoned with steering problems

Could well the the same one than! I would love to see the "old" pics.

Kuno, I read your article in the Military machines issue and it was very interesting to read. It is however sad to see that the V8 was only recently removed from the truck.....sad.

Alex

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

If it was, as suspected, a S/M 2003 delivery direct to Alexandria for assembly [starting December 1940] then it would have been a 1941 MODEL but an early-style # 11 cab. It is therefore a remarkable survivor.

[Local Chap]

Originally Posted by Kuno

Unfortunately, desert-travelling becomes more and more difficult these days. For Egypt, you do not only have to take a military officer wth you, as it was in recet years but - depending on where you want to go- between 4 and 8 additional armed policemen with two additional trucks and two additional drivers. These are definitely not conditions I am used to have and even want to have :-(.

This was posted only a couple of weeks ago, when Egypt was a much calmer place. I wonder what the rules for desert travel would be today, or for the forseeable future?

[Kuno]

...I was very lucky that I took the chance to visit Egypt and Tunisia in autumn last year...

[gjamo]

Maybe its a good time for a clandestine border raid while they are all buzy throwing rocks at each other. I'll hold the gate open for you all when you get back.
Graeme

[paul Lincoln]

Been speaking to the son of Y patrol veteran and he is certain that Kuno's Ford is the same one that the oil workers pulled out. He says that there were nearly 200 Army Forms on board and he has now identified about 150 as LRDG men. Hope to get a couple of photos posted.

[Mark Mackenzie]

Paul,

That is exciting news. Were the photos in colour or B/W?

Cheers,
Mark

[gazzaw]

Excellent stuff Kuno, Paul et al. Keep up the good work

Gary

[Marc Montgomery]

wow how intriquing. i wonder how many times the truck has been buried and unburied over the years by the sand?

i seem to recall a ww2 truckwas located and recovered by the egyptian or Libyan (?) military a few years ago (10?) and was put on display.
I think it was a cmp but cannot remember.

-I believe the story was that they theorized it was a supply truck that got lost in the desert.. lots of empty food cartons lying around it.. possibly two men aboard- lost/died in the desert? the sands blew over it and covered it for decades till the sands blew off it. Allegedly in perfect condition

I also seem to recall they claimed they put a new battery and fuel in and were able to drive it out (although frankly I kinda doubt that) I also remember seeing photos of it on display but cannot locate them now.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/45052443@N00/5227780594/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/45052443@N00/5227185397/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/45052443@N00/5187665689/

[Ken Hughes]

Yes Mark the Cmp was a ford and is the one on display at Al Elimain museum on a plinth
I think it was repainted,and that it was the French who found it.
Some where i have the news paper clipping on it.
I wonder what else lies buried in the sand?.

[drcowie]

What about this one in the Imperial War Museum, London?

[Kuno]

Dear Colleagues; I am not very familiar with the serial numbers painted on the CMP trucks and don't know what they tell about manufacturing year and so on - may one of you explain me what he can read from this photo?

BTW - the number is painted on the LRDG patrol truck resting in the Sand Sea in Egypt. I forgot to look for it when I was there in 2010 ... luckily, others think further

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Kuno,

What you show is L4406114, the War Department census number, the formal registration number assigned to this truck. L stands for the lorry class of vehicles.

Do you have a picture of the complete truck? That would help in identifying it further.

Hanno

[Kuno]

Hi Hanno - it is the famous LRDG Ford in the Sand Sea near Ain Dalla:

[Kuno]

...after a long period looking after vintage aircraft and keeping myself a bit busy with a nice 1930 Ford A (modified to the version used for desert expeditions in the 1930ies) I am obviously coming back to trucks.

This time I am looking for information regarding MACK 10to trucks which were used to supply Kufra from Wadi Halfa in 1941.

The unit given in an album is "4. Line of Command"... which is not actually a unit.
Here I am struggeling.

I could read the following census numbers on the trucks:

L 265 542
L 266 204
L 266 057
L _01 252 (First digit missing)
L 265 591
L 266 181 (not clearly readable)

Would it happen that anybody here in the forum is able to identify these numbers and to tell me the exact type of truck and -more important- to which unit it went?

Many thanks in advance - and have a happy new year 2016!

[Richard Farrant]

Hi Kuno
Assuming these numbers are complete, ie L plus 6 digits, then they all fall in a large group of numbers that were not used. This may seem odd, but I wonder if they were transferred from US Army in the Middle East and not official allocated numbers.

Regards the number on the Ford that you asked about, that falls in a group of numbers allocated to "Commander in Chief, Middle East - various types".

regards, Richard

[Kuno]

Thank you, Richard, for this fast response.

Regarding the census numbers - it may be that the trucks wearing them were idnead transferred from civilian ownership into military service. I need to dig into the books again but I recal that the LRDGs "heavy Section" was equipped with MACKs and WHITEs obtained from oil companies working in the Middle East.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Kuno

Thank you, Richard, for this fast response.

Regarding the census numbers - it may be that the trucks wearing them were idnead transferred from civilian ownership into military service. I need to dig into the books again but I recal that the LRDGs "heavy Section" was equipped with MACKs and WHITEs obtained from oil companies working in the Middle East.

Hi Kuno,
I realised after posting that the date 1941 was too early for vehicles to have been transfer from US Army in theatre so your theory on them coming from oil companies makes more sense and hence why they are given numbers from a group not allocated. It always made me wonder why there were unused blocks, maybe it was for circumstances such as this.

regards, Richard