Ferret CFR List

[servicepub (RIP)]

According to Colin Stevens, in his book "The Ferret Scout Car in Canadian Service" (Service Publications) Canada, Australia and the UK shared an order for 593 MkI Ferrets in 1951, under contract number 6/FV/4267. But don't confuse a War Office contract with Britsh Army useage.
CLive

[Robin Craig]

Jim, I think I know you from the old Ferret Heaven, anyway here goes.

British made military vehicles usually had either an "MS" military sales designation registration or a conventional British Army style, so either lets say 01 MS 88 or 21 BA 35. Somewhere in the anals of officialdom there is a cross reference between all of these.

Anyhow, I have no clue why you refer to your vehicle as a "Fieldmouse", im presuming you have some rare prototype that I didnt know about obviously.

As fas as the "used" vehicle status you mention, I find that an interesting idea. The reason I say that is this, Colin mentions in his book that Canadian vehicles had square side hatches, yet one of mine, C/S 31, has sloped hatches but is such an obvious Canadian vehicle for many other reasons.

I suspect that somewhere along the timeline of production of Ferrets the side hatch changed from square to sloped and I think that the Canadian order was filled with vehicles of both types and at the time it was not a big deal to those at the factory so no special mention was made of it.

See what I mean?

Robin

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Robin Craig

Anyhow, I have no clue why you refer to your vehicle as a "Fieldmouse", im presuming you have some rare prototype that I didnt know about obviously.

This was the name given to the Mk1 originally, it was used by the War Office in official documents at the time.

[Robin Craig]

Thanks Richard for that.


R

[Jim Gilmore]

Robin,

We know each other from the old Mil-Veh list and we have met before at Oshawa rally (remember your drive up Parliament Hill? :-) ...)......

The Ferret was originally designated "Fieldmouse Mk. 1"

I have an original WD manual (bought from Peter S. at the OMVS show many, many years ago) which has this right on the front page. Inside is "Change 1" to this manual which states " Change Fieldmouse Mk. 1 to Ferret Mk.1"

I'll dig this manual out of the boxes of manuals here and post the cover and change.

Only very early "Ferrets" were actually "Fieldmouses".

...and most CDN "Ferrets" are early....

As to the side hatches. The early Ferrets had square hatches...later this was changed to the angled or sloped type. It is a spotting feature for early vehicles.

Clive wrote:
".....Canada, Australia and the UK shared an order for 593 MkI Ferrets in 1951, under contract number 6/FV/4267....."

I don't believe the contract was actually divided up between the countries. If the CDN Ferrets were part of this contract they would have been delivered in 1951 or at the latest 1952. If so..then the CDN Reg. numbers would have been 51-xxxxx or 52-xxxxx and not 54-xxxxx.

As Robin has said.....the xxBAxx numbers on the CDN Ferrets would indicate that they were delivered to the British Army.

As soon as I can get the CDN number from my vehicle I will contact Bovington to see if they have the BA/WD record for it and maybe it will list if it was sent right to Canada or if it was in British service first.

As to Robin's vehicle with the sloped hatches....what is the BA number for this vehicle? It may have been a BA Ferret used by the BA for training in Canada and later transferred to CDN ownership.

Jim Gilmore

Jim Thorpe, PA.

[Jim Gilmore]

I have just gotten some info on a friend of mine's CDN Ferret Mk-1 and the data does not jive with what has been posted.


He gave me the following:

Date plate information: 412.B.6.4 (412th Ferret made, June 1954)

Hull number: 54-82606

War Department Number: 36BA86 (from Bovington Tank Museum records)

-----------------

Now this is different from what was posted.....

From Canadian Army records:

Year Number HUIC Holding Unit ERN ERN Description

1954 82606* 0109* CFB CALGARY 30541* CAR ARM FERRET FV701MK1

1954 82606* 36BA80 LDSH

---------------------

From British contract records

36BA86 Hull No 412

36BA80 Hull No 406

----------------------------------------

Note that the Canadian records show the vehicle as 36BA80 with the Canadian number as 54-82606.

There is no 36BA86 listed as a CDN Ferret.


Can anyone sort out the differences here?

Also, is the data plate number ..... 412.B.6.4 ......show the date of manufacture or date of delivery ?

What does the B mean?

According to contract data it was built in 1951.

Interesting.......

Jim Gilmore

Jim Thorpe, PA.

[Wayne Henderson]

The Canadian Ferret list looks very much like the Australian list.
The Ferrets delivered to Australia (mine and others on this side of the paddock) had British ARN/numbers under the Australian numbers.

The contracts must have been mixed as there is an Australian Mk I as 36BA87 and the British numbers are not in any run of numbers.

[Jason Ginn]

Originally Posted by Jim Gilmore

I have just gotten some info on a friend of mine's CDN Ferret Mk-1 and the data does not jive with what has been posted.


He gave me the following:

Date plate information: 412.B.6.4 (412th Ferret made, June 1954)

Hull number: 54-82606

War Department Number: 36BA86 (from Bovington Tank Museum records)

-----------------

Now this is different from what was posted.....

From Canadian Army records:

Year Number HUIC Holding Unit ERN ERN Description

1954 82606* 0109* CFB CALGARY 30541* CAR ARM FERRET FV701MK1

1954 82606* 36BA80 LDSH

---------------------

From British contract records

36BA86 Hull No 412

36BA80 Hull No 406

----------------------------------------

Note that the Canadian records show the vehicle as 36BA80 with the Canadian number as 54-82606.

There is no 36BA86 listed as a CDN Ferret.


Can anyone sort out the differences here?

Also, is the data plate number ..... 412.B.6.4 ......show the date of manufacture or date of delivery ?

What does the B mean?

According to contract data it was built in 1951.

Interesting.......

Jim Gilmore

Jim Thorpe, PA.

Hi Jim,

I can't say for certain as i don't have a copy of the Canadian Ferret vehicle history sheets but the discrepancy may be as simple as a typo. The sheets were often completed by hand so information entered on them can be difficult to decipher, especially when someone has corrected information. 8 and 6 can appear similar when quickly written or when read off a stamping.

Attached is a sample of the Canadian Army RCEME vehicle history sheet for Centurion Mk.V 53-81182. Notice that the "serial" number has been changed from 12 BA 86 or 88 to 12 BA 89L. It is of note that the Canadian Centurion listings contain a number of errors and corrections. The Canadian Army seem to have had a hard time deciding when to use 52, 53 or 54 prefixes to the CAR numbers (sometimes going back and forth a number of times for the same tank) and the "serial" is recorded using a mix of the British Army census number, the actual hull serial number or just completely omitted. Engine numbers are really hit and miss.

At least a few Canadian Centurions were marked in Europe with both the British Census numbers and the CAR number. Don Dingwall's book on the Centurion (p.17) shows Mk.V 53-81365 wearing the CAR on the right rear of the hull and 47 BA 86 on the left.

I know Colin visited Ottawa to pull Ferret files from LAC but a number of them are still closed and I don't know what they opened to him in the end. A quick search of the on-line catalouge shows "Manufacture, Procurement Production & Requirements - Tracked Vehicles - Tank Centurion" the file is dated 1953-1955 so it may contain some useful information.

File no. (creator)
S-7133-Tank Centurion
Textual records
32: Restricted by law
Box
3428 File Part 1
90: Open
Former archival reference no.
RG24-C-1-c
Other accession no.
1983-84/048 GAD

At least it is CLSN 90 so it may be easier to get at.

Sorry I don't have more specifically on the Ferret but I hope this is of some use.

J