2010 at the Hammond Barn

[Bob Carriere]

Hi Gord

Bring your doors to Acton...... let me have a look..... it's a little intimidating to do your doors when I have seen some of the tin bashing you have done....

.....almost like Michael Angelo ordering a paint by number kit.... I will repair the frame and you can install a perfectly straight skin.....


....but I am willing to give it a try.

Bob

[Bob Carriere]

Hi Phil

The doors I am working on are actually my practice doors..... they come from the cab 12 that I refer to as "Ted's truck"..... my cab 11 doors are not as bad but will need redoing also. Turns out my first pair of doors will probably look very good..... it just takes time.

I also have a very miticulous and patient assistant in Grant.... he will not let me get away with short cuts.

I have the spot welder and now know how to use it.... I also have the special sheet metal glue/epoxy and the required gun...... and I am wavering.

WE have done so well so far with traditional heat, weld, grind, etc. I am now unsure what process I will use for the skin.

Being practice doors..... I may go ahead with the glue process..... may have to check ambient room temperature requirement or delay until Spring.

I may try the spot welder for the cab 11 original doors ... who knows....

Presently the doors have been heavily sandblasted and threated with Phosporic acid.... nice gray blush. My ppans are along your line of thinking...glue or spot weld I will sloosh POR 15 on the inside of the doors and have it flow into every crack possible...... spray with a binder coat then OD.

I have the advantage on the cab 11/12 door of having a removable inner skin so I can literally waterproof the doors while the lock is still out.....

I just recently found a stash of flat head...pan head..slot type screws for the skin of the door......

I welcome any comments...suggestions on the finish process...glue or spot weld.

I had a discussion with a bodyman a while back..... he tells me that the glue joint is so resistant that when they patch up panels that are supposed to crush to absorb impact that they are instrcuted to use no more than a half inch overlap or the panels that are suppposed to deform in an accident will deform and crush properly.

He also mentioned that set time is flexible based on ambient temp. and setting can be speeded up in body shop by using heat lamps.

It would certainly make sense for reskinning the back of the cab where I have to remove the stiffenning ribs and re-install on the new skin..... gluing would not risk warping the new skin.......

Ever wonder why we are spending $$ and time fixing a truck door that survived, on its own, nearly 70 years even though it was designed to last just a few years..... and survived even though the design was far from perfect and really had a lot of flaws that encouraged trapping moisture....

Once finished our trucks should last at least 120 years..... and that is just half life.

Boob

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

Hi Phil

The doors I am working on are actually my practice doors..... they come from the cab 12 that I refer to as "Ted's truck"..... my cab 11 doors are not as bad but will need redoing also. Turns out my first pair of doors will probably look very good..... it just takes time.

I also have a very miticulous and patient assistant in Grant.... he will not let me get away with short cuts.

I have the spot welder and now know how to use it.... I also have the special sheet metal glue/epoxy and the required gun...... and I am wavering.

WE have done so well so far with traditional heat, weld, grind, etc. I am now unsure what process I will use for the skin.

Being practice doors..... I may go ahead with the glue process..... may have to check ambient room temperature requirement or delay until Spring.

I may try the spot welder for the cab 11 original doors ... who knows....

Presently the doors have been heavily sandblasted and threated with Phosporic acid.... nice gray blush. My ppans are along your line of thinking...glue or spot weld I will sloosh POR 15 on the inside of the doors and have it flow into every crack possible...... spray with a binder coat then OD.

I have the advantage on the cab 11/12 door of having a removable inner skin so I can literally waterproof the doors while the lock is still out.....

I just recently found a stash of flat head...pan head..slot type screws for the skin of the door......

I welcome any comments...suggestions on the finish process...glue or spot weld.

I had a discussion with a bodyman a while back..... he tells me that the glue joint is so resistant that when they patch up panels that are supposed to crush to absorb impact that they are instrcuted to use no more than a half inch overlap or the panels that are suppposed to deform in an accident will deform and crush properly.

He also mentioned that set time is flexible based on ambient temp. and setting can be speeded up in body shop by using heat lamps.

It would certainly make sense for reskinning the back of the cab where I have to remove the stiffenning ribs and re-install on the new skin..... gluing would not risk warping the new skin.......

Ever wonder why we are spending $$ and time fixing a truck door that survived, on its own, nearly 70 years even though it was designed to last just a few years..... and survived even though the design was far from perfect and really had a lot of flaws that encouraged trapping moisture....

Once finished our trucks should last at least 120 years..... and that is just half life.

Boob

Bob..
To keep your skin from warping when welding,clamp it to the frame and spot weld it ,in a fashion ,like torquing head bolts..once it it tacks straight on the frame skip weld (Short runs..3/8"-1/2") using the same location varying technique , leaving time for the metal to cool....
Don't over weld your skin to the frame..enough to keep it there and from rattling..and don't worry about the "Crush"absorbing safety factor..you won't need it if you hit anything head on..The steering column will make you forget all about the fancy welding on the door skin..

[Gordon Yeo]

Bob
I was sure you would say I don't need any help with door frames and too bugger off. We'll have too have a chat again this year at Acton.

I used the bonding adhesive on the car fenders and floor pans and was quite pleased with the results. It takes time and quite a few clamps to prepare and fit things to be bonded, thats about it for the down side. Bonding eliminates the heat distortion and metal clean up from a mig, I don't have the luxury of a spot welder. The bonding adhesive is easy to apply and work with and is not as toxic as POR in a closed work area ( no disrespect intended to POR , I've used it too). It also leaves a seal between the two layers of steel that is water proof. That is a huge bonus as that is usually where rust starts out off.

The adhesive is expensive, but I found it easier and quicker to work with than welding, with a better finished product.

[cletrac (RIP)]

Alex, if you hit a modern vehicle with a CMP, it's the one that would be doing the crush absorbing anyway.

[Bob Carriere]

Gord

You ninnie....... I am just surprised that you would ask me...after I have seen what you are capable of doing...... I will gladly do what I can to help you out. Bring your doors down to Acton and remove the inner skin first so we can see the guts of things....

Hang in there.

Boob

[Bob Carriere]

Well after listening to all the good advice...... and the nay sayer who said the 10:50 Chevron tires would not fit a CMP rim.....and not knowing any better.... we did it.....

Pictures will follow from Grant and Rob.

The tire shop guys said to me the last time I was over begging for tire lube.... "Why don't you guys use threaded rods to get the rim together if you can't reach the two long studs......?

That set my mind to thinking how to build a device that would not damage the painted rims.... and safe and easy to use...

Well I built two steel tubing crosses.... drilled for the drum bolt pattern... got 36 inches of 3/4 threaded rod and nuts......cut the rods in 4 pieces a bit of welding and whalla!!!

The pictures will show you what I mean. The device is intended to install the tire bead on the lower and longer half of the rim. The messy tire lub they sold me worked like K-Y jelly on a new bride..... smissshh !!!

One cross fits the under side of the lower half of the rim....tire is expended and held open with square pieces of two x four lumber....... remember I am only instaling the tire bead on the lower half of the rim.... Phil.. tire was cold... the lube was like crystalized snoot.... the upper cross is 18 inches across and spans the tire bead... we added cut off pieces of 1x2 steel left over from the ends of the crosses to push the bead down enough so we coiuld remove the inner cross...... so when you screw the 4 large bolts the bead is forced evenly over the edge of the lubed rim with hardly any hesitation.

Once the tire bead is properly installed on the lower half.... we removed the rig and inserted the tube and flap..... partly inflated the tube... enough to position the tube BUT not enough to bulge the flap between the rim. We did use a flat stick to make sure everything was in the right place.

The top half of the rim was then applied....even forgot to lube the top half... by now the two longer rim studs reched and allowed to install the nuts.... the rest is nuts on..... tighten evenly..... inflate deflate.. reinflate. At 30 psi the tire was fully seated and not even a "pop" was heard....just slipped in place like nothing.

Now we have 3 more to do for mine..... plus dozen more to come.

It sure beat the hell out of trimming beads, hammering the bead on the rim, cursing......

Now if the casing had been softer with mild weather it would have been even easier. Every garage should have one....cost about $20 of steel and $20 for rod and nuts...... getting tire done at the tire shop.... $20 + pick up and delivery time..... the experience of doing it yourself...safely and without breaking into a sweat....priceless.

Having Grant and Rob to help is a luxury!!!

Boob