Morris PU: BEF Dunkirk? Unit, registration?

[Rich Payne]

Decent Hi-res photos of BEF softskins are a bit few and far between and I haven't got anything in books really worth scanning.

Morris-Commercials with the BEF often seem to have the Arm of Service marking on its coloured background displayed on a square plate central to the radiator grille, Bridging plate on right-hand mudguard and Divisional Insignia on the left-hand side.

Do you have an idea which unit you'd like to display ?

Hodges and Taylor include details of 1940 AoS markings so that's straightforward to look up. Some Divisional insignia differed from later in the war but I can find illustrations of some of them.

Blackout in 1940 consisted of the lower half of the reflector being painted black and a manilla paper mask inside the glass with a small semi-circular cut-out.

[Ron Pier]

Fancy seeing you on here Rich. When I researched the markings for my Norton Big4 outfit, I came across a model makers magazine. It gave some clear insight to the markings for the Royal Northumberland Fusiliers. It also went on to mention that they had Morris 8cwt trucks and scout cars ( Dingos) The only original pictures are obviously in B&W. The marking on the Big4 are a red TT in a black circle, and a white 18 in a coloured square. There is some debate about the colour of the square. Is it black, green or red?? The other B4 markings are, unit and vehicle number. Here is what I did with my PU8/4. With some artistic licence. I have no picture evidence of the PU8/4 with the BEF. So far I've only seen them in North Africa. Not so the PU though, they were definitely at Dunkirk. Ron

[Rich Payne]

Hello Ron, I think that Alex could do worse than use your Morris as an example. I had forgotten that article in 'Army & Navy Modelworld' - I have a poor quality scan which I'll send through to Alex.

As you say, there has been debate about the colour used by 4 RNF but I think that you're correct in using red. This picture of a 50 Div sidecar at Herseaux in 1940 makes it quite obvious that the AoS background cannot be black and is the same tone as the 'TT'

[Keith Brooker]

Some photos of morris PU in the Dunkirk area 1940. Hope these are OK. Photos are from my collection. The first truck photo has TT on it. 2nd photo is a RA unit.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Rich, Ron and Keith,

Thank you very much for your replies. This really helps me a lot! I am hoping to finish the build of the model today and put some paint on it tomorrow. I have indeed decided to dress the Morris up as a truck from 4RNF, 50th Division.


The Norton in Rich' picture shows the "twin T's" in a rounded patch. Was this common in the early stages of the war, compared to the square patch you often see in pictures taken later in the war? Or did it differ from one vehicle to another?

Rich, regarding the blackouts. What colour would the Manilla paper have been? Dark green or black, maybe? Do I understand correctly that only a small half-circular form was left open on the top of the headlight? Or the bottom? When looking at Keith second picture, the lower half od the headlights seems to be a lighter colour? Or is it actually the mirror we are looking at?

thanks guys,

Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

Rich, Ron and Keith,

Thank you very much for your replies. This really helps me a lot! I am hoping to finish the build of the model today and put some paint on it tomorrow. I have indeed decided to dress the Morris up as a truck from 4RNF, 50th Division.


The Norton in Rich' picture shows the "twin T's" in a rounded patch. Was this common in the early stages of the war, compared to the square patch you often see in pictures taken later in the war? Or did it differ from one vehicle to another?

Rich, regarding the blackouts. What colour would the Manilla paper have been? Dark green or black, maybe? Do I understand correctly that only a small half-circular form was left open on the top of the headlight? Or the bottom? When looking at Keith second picture, the lower half od the headlights seems to be a lighter colour? Or is it actually the mirror we are looking at?

thanks guys,

Alex

[Rich Payne]

The 'TT' in Keith's first picture is also on a circular ground. Many 1940 period insignia were slightly different, for instance 4th Div had a different quarter.

The small semi circle on the lamp glass should be underneath but was sometimes wrong and often vibrated out of line. Other vehicles were completely overpainted.

I think that you're looking at the half-painted silver reflector in the picture of the damaged vehicle. The glasses were easily damaged and then fall completely out.

The paper mask was black (based on my surviving rear lamp mask).

Rich

[Ron Pier]

Using the very good information available re the 4RNF. This is how I depicted my Big4. I just need a Dingo now, in the same markings to start my own unit.

BTW. you can buy that black manila card from Hobycraft, but I guess you'd know that, as a modeler.

Ron

[cliff]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

Thank you very much for your replies. This really helps me a lot! I am hoping to finish the build of the model today and put some paint on it tomorrow. I have indeed decided to dress the Morris up as a truck from 4RNF, 50th Division.

Alex

Well where are the sample photos of the model for us to enjoy Alex?

[Keith Brooker]

Sorry Ron, i do not have any photos of that Morris . quite a rare Morris.