surviving T16s

[Hanno Spoelstra]

One of a few T16's surviving in France at the ASSOCIATION DE SAUVEGARDE DU PATRIMOINE HISTORIQUE MILITAIRE. They have quite an extensive collection of vehicles.

According to the data plate it is s/n 10274 and WD no. T102186-S. For some reason it is marked USA 4074468.

[pablo50cal]

1) another pictures of my carrier
now I need to remuve the engine because its making bad noise
I need to change the metals

2) two years ago

3) another place araund here , but dont make ilusions the people ho have tree carrier dont sale .

4) my carrier

5) dont forget me
pablo from argentina t16 n13588

[horsa]

T-16 on display at a muesum in South Africa. A friend posted the shots but I don't know where it is right now. Will update this posting with details once they are known.

It appears the engine exhaust is being routed out the side of the armour hull.

[centi521.]

us t-16 swiss version

he's one of 3 t-16 in switzerland (2 have the army and this one )

[RichardT10829]

The two that Kevin Weatcroft has,,, are for sale from what he told me they are shot up pretty bad and have no internals at all but can be yours for £4500 (this was two years back when i started looking for a carrier)

Rich

[Jason Ginn]

The Swords and Ploughshares Museum near Ottawa has a cut T-16 in its collection. Mike may be able to add some info but i alsways thought that this one had some interesting features such as the towing attachment and fenders/steps on the sides. I remember John Cameron, a one-time shareholder in this carrier, saying that it was found in the Ottawa area but I can't remember where. It has a been fitted with a newer Chevrolet in-line six with 3-speed trans mounted to the input shaft of the original Ford trans, and it seems that the tracks are on backwards.

I don't think that i've ever seen carrier wheels with round holes in them, are they T-16 specific?

j

[horsa]

The angle iron rails at the edge above the tracks would identify this one as having been in one of the Canadian Infantry Division's Support Battalions as part of a 4.2" mortar platoon. Course they didn't have wooden bodies back then

I've also never seen wheels with the round holes so not sure what they originated on unless they are late patten T-16 solid disc wheels with lightening holes bored into them. Or holes bored into them to make them appear closed to the stright spoke or curved spoke patterns.

[K713]

Originally Posted by Jason Ginn

The Swords and Ploughshares Museum near Ottawa has a cut T-16 in its collection. Mike may be able to add some info but i alsways thought that this one had some interesting features such as the towing attachment and fenders/steps on the sides. I remember John Cameron, a one-time shareholder in this carrier, saying that it was found in the Ottawa area but I can't remember where. It has a been fitted with a newer Chevrolet in-line six with 3-speed trans mounted to the input shaft of the original Ford trans, and it seems that the tracks are on backwards.

I don't think that i've ever seen carrier wheels with round holes in them, are they T-16 specific?

j

Hello the wheel with rounds holes are specific for British Loyd carrier, but are used on Universal carrier ..

[maple_leaf_eh]

Is this one still at S&P?

Originally Posted by Jason Ginn

The Swords and Ploughshares Museum near Ottawa has a cut T-16 in its collection. ... I remember John Cameron, a one-time shareholder in this carrier, saying that it was found in the Ottawa area but I can't remember where. It has a been fitted with a newer Chevrolet in-line six with 3-speed trans mounted to the input shaft of the original Ford trans, and it seems that the tracks are on backwards.

...
j

[andrew honychurch]

what about this serial number then/??

universal_carrier_t16_17.jpg
http://www.asphm.com/vehicules/unive...ier_t16_17.jpg

point being, Adrian, that this original plate has a T number not a TD. I think there is some misunderstandings going on here! Not sure what is correct and what each nomenclature means?

[ajmac]

As Adrian said the war department number, for anything tracked, the 'T' number, originated in England, when an order was placed a block of numbers was allocated to that contract, I have seen some of the Loyd Carrier contract cards held by the tank museum earlier in the year, there may be T16 cards too. What does nigels carrier book volume 2 say, his section on loyds in volume 1 has all the WD number lists for loyds.
The data plate would have had the WD number stamped on it as well as a vehicle serial number which was unique to the manufacturer, the T16 parts book refers to change points using the vehicle serial number. It goes on to say:
vehicle serial numbers were first assigned to each hull when fabricated rather than the final assembled vehicle, this number prefixed by FS should be stamped on the transmission and final drive housing. After hull number 1000 the vehicles were assigned a serial number without prefix or suffix, it was stamped on the top upper right hand front plate also transmission case and final drive. So you should be able to have a stab at your vehicle serial number my havin a look in these places...obviously be careful of parts that may have been replaced in service.

I presume the TD part is perhaps a corruption of the T number, I have seen a Loyd data plate stamped CTxxxx, which doesn't exist in the wartime contract cards, however the vehicle fitted the bill for being the number without the C. Like all of these things not as black and White as it first seems :-)

[horsa]

This is why I thought the number on the data plate and in paint on the vehicle was the British census number. They were built under contract in the USA for England and the "T" or "TD" number was painted while in the USA on the three designated locations as specified by the contract.

No USA vehicle has a T or TD code so this must have been done based on vehicle contract orders that had been placed already. And we've seen examples of the T-16 with the white vehicle numbers like mine had, in the same three locations. Some had TD prefix like mine and some only had T. Postwar examples the Swiss bought were painted over, but the original numbers are still etched into the hull under the paint.

My understanding is the Welbikes build in the UK had their numbers with the "C" prefix painted at the production factory based on contracts so it would stand to reason the same thing happened with the T-16. Since the U.S. army wasn't getting the vehicles, anyone doing record keeping could simply have gone by the vehicle's Ford serial number which is stamped with the date on the front armour. And that number has nothing to do with the sequence of the T or TD number.

In terms of your question on towing assignment Andrew, I have no idea. The towing assembly and wading skirt squares were definitely added after the vehicles got to the UK. My towing assembly and several others I've seen were welded directly over the rear vehicle markings. And the markings on the side were partially obscured by the front wading skirt squares and so got repainted lower down on the side after the modifications were done. Odds are there was some minor specification difference in a vehicle ordered as a tug, but so far we haven't identified a trend in the variations in parts encountered.

Shot attached has been posted before and shows a field of T-16s in the UK that have not been modified with towing assemblies or wading fixtures. Note the numbers and prefix on the rear lower armor of the vehicles that haven't been converted into tents. And the other shot has a T-16 with numbers in the same format as my carrier had with dots behind the vehicle prefix. It only has a "T." prefix but the space is there for a "D." before the number begins. And the third shot shows another T-16 with similar spacing. But they were not as conscientious about doing a good job of painting over the "D." which makes you wonder what else was going on back then.

Note: These are wartime shots and not surviving T-16s so it's a bit of overlap with the other old T-16 message thread. But they are needed for reference here I think.

[ajmac]

I like the 1st photo, note all the Loyd Carriers in the distance!

[andrew honychurch]

well its a bit of mystery. Interesting to note on your photos David, that the vehicle in service in Europe does not have the wading blocks welded on and I assume that it doesnt have the tow equipment either, which may mean that these were added after they had been in service? As for the TD and |T designation, my vehicle is a latish one, June 1944 manufacture from recollection, I think all the vehicles I have seen so far with TD are earlier than this. So, I wonder whether there was a change in designation at some stage. I am sure it will be possible to find out for sure what the difference relates to. Someone needs to go digging at the Tank Museum!