LPG fuel around the world...

[rob love]

This thread has had some very interesting information and anecdotes. Very informative to see the directions that LPG has gone, and the reliability achieved in the warmer climates.

One of the problems we had back in the day with the dual fuel system was that you either tuned up the vehicle for gas, or for propane. Or more often, you kind of struck a balance so that neither system was operating at it's peak efficiency. With todays computer systems I guess the end results could be much more favorable.

My guess was that we had seen the last of the propane vehicles in this part of the world, but I suppose we can never say never.

[cletrac (RIP)]

The big problem for these conversions is compression ratio. Propane needs a lot higher ratio to work properly. If you installed pistons that gave about 11 to 1 ratio that would solve some of it but there'd be no going back to gasoline. You'd still have the spare fuel portability issue and the cold weather thing. Rob mentioned minus 35 temps causing problems but at minus 40 propane simply won't vaporize. I worked on a seismograph crew in Alberta in the early 1970s and when it got lower than about 20 below F we'd light the tiger torch and direct the flickering flame at the 100 pound bottle for 15 or 20 minutes before the liquid would vaporize enough to make the torch burn properly. That made some of the crew get a little nervous but "ya gotta do what ya gotta do!" I remember filling those bottles for $3 but then crude oil was $1.86 a barrel too. Talk about the good old days!

[Lang]

You seem to have a serious problem in sub-zero temperatures and maybe Canadian gas use will require further development with heating units etc before it is universally acceptable. Of course in those temperatures EVERY engine has its problems - you don't see engine warmers on cars or aircraft in Australia.

Gas does not need higher compressions to work as well as petrol. If you read the above thread you will see that compression is not mentioned in the various problems discussed. There are tens (hundreds?) of thousands of vehicles in Australia alone running on gas conversions switching from petrol to gas as they drive along with no discernable change in performance or reliability.

I have probably 250,000km in dual fuel gas/petrol converted cars ranging from Ford V8's to Toyota and Nissan straight 6's to GM V6's. Apart from saving tens of thousands of dollars they all performed with reliability and performance equal to or better than their original petrol only brothers.

Don't give up Canada, I am sure there is a way to use LPG in a cold climate with a bit of inventive experimentation.

[Rob Beale]

When it comes out of the ground ,crude has a range of hydrocarbons from the lightest gas, Methane to the heaviest Bitumens. Refining separates the mix into fractions for users:
Methane is Natural Gas used in domestic homes and as CNG
Ethane gets used to make plastics and stuff
Propane is usually mixed with Butane and sold as LPG
Butane is used on its own in cigarette lighters
after that we get liquids which are usually mixed so:
Pentane thru Octane and beyond become petrol (or gasoline)
then heavier fractions make things like parafin, kerosene, diesel etc
then come the various grades of lubricating oils
The stuff that stays solid is used on the roads as bitumen,
and the gunk left over that is too soft for roading and too thick for fuel is used as bunker oil in ships, where they heat it to make it flow

That's it in a nut shell

If more LPG is used, mainly in the warmer climes, that will take the pressure off world demand for petrol, and help those in the cooler areas.

Rob

ps I used CNG vehicles at work in the 1980's and it was a pain in the butt, low power, low range, no roadside top ups. The taxi and bus industries loved it, but they were able to stay close to the refill station and one driver per vehicle helped too.

Another vehicle in the fleet (a Falcon) had dual fuel LPG / petrol and it had an incredible range, with barely noticeable power drop on LPG.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Lang

Don't give up Canada, I am sure there is a way to use LPG in a cold climate with a bit of inventive experimentation.

There certainly is: I wear a parka when I barbeque with it in January. If it's real cold I bring the bottle into the house for a spell to warm it first.