M4A2 Sherman III

[kevinT]

I am currently working on the Formations Models M4A2. ( lovely kit it is too ).
I am looking for Canadian / British units that used the Sherman III, in NWE preferably.
Any tank names, matching WD numbers would be a bonus.
Cheers
Kevin T

[Dana Nield]

One of the Sherbrooke Fusillers was a Sherman III. I have decal artwork done for this model which will be released in the near future.

Cheers!

Dana

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Kevin, the Sherman pictured above, "Bomb", was an M4A2 and one of the few Shermans of any marque to survive the war from D-Day through to the end of the war. It was brought back and is presently a plinth vehicle in Sherbrooke Quebec. You can't do better than that!

[Roddy de Normann]

Originally Posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball

Kevin, the Sherman pictured above, "Bomb", was an M4A2 and one of the few Shermans of any marque to survive the war from D-Day through to the end of the war. It was brought back and is presently a plinth vehicle in Sherbrooke Quebec. You can't do better than that!

Geoff -

I am currently going through all the Canadian Armoured Regiment War Diaries - thanks to the International Landing Scheme that sends me the microfilmed papers. One thing I am picking up is the number of vehs that appeared to have been issued to a regiment in 1943/44 only to be handed in by the same regiment in June/July 1945. The oldest one I have found was issued for the Sicily campaign in 1943 and then handed in to B Sqn, 25 CADR in June 45. Once I have gone through the lot, I will post those I have found...

Roddy

[Roddy de Normann]

Hi to all -

Ref the Polish WD Nos used in the UK, I have only really noted these for vehs used by the Poles between 1940 to 1942. I have also noted - but can not for the life of remember where from - that vehs issued to other Occupied Nations - Dutch & Belgians for instance - also used the longer nos.

All those that I have noted to date are based on photo evidence - I have not seen any evidence from docs to date. Perhaps other members have ?

Either way, below are the nos I have seen and logged:

POLISH ARMOURED FORCES IN UK

T. 1283032 -

Valentine III - 1st (Polish) Armoured Division ? - 1941 - Exercise in Scotland ?

T. 1290231 -

Renault UE M1e Tractor - 67th (Polish) Tank Battalion & 3rd Bn, 1st Tank Regiment - Veh had '074' in box on fnt - 1940 ? - UK. Veh reportedly one of 17 vehs brought back fm France and used for trg - Veh pic in Lexicon of Armd Forces, Vol.1 & 'Od Acromy do Zwyciezcy - Vol 6'

T. 1290235 -

Renault UE M1e Tractor - 67th (Polish) Tank Battalion & Tk Sqn, Recce Battalion, 1st (Polish) Armoured Division Recce Bn later became 3 Tk Regt - Veh had '074' in box on fnt - Pic in Wydanictwo Militaria No.196 '1st Armoured Division 1939-1945' - Via Michael Grieve Archive

T. 1290249 -

Valentine I or II - 65th (Polish) Tank Battalion, 16th (Polish) Tank Brigade - 1942 - Scotland ? - Pic in Wydanictwo Militaria No.196 '1st Armoured Division 1939-1945' - Via Michael Grieve Archive

T. 1290251 -

Valentine I or II - 65th (Polish) Tank Battalion, 16th (Polish) Tank Brigade - 1942 - Scotland ? - Pic in Wydanictwo Militaria No.196 '1st Armoured Division 1939-1945' - Via Michael Grieve Archive

T. 1290270 -

Carrier Universal Mk.I - 1st (Polish) Corps - Summer 42 - UK - Pic in Wydanictwo Militaria No.196 '1st Armoured Division 1939-1945'

T. 1290295 -

Valentine I or II - 1st (Polish) Armoured Division - 21 Aug 41 - Scotland - IWM pic H 13003

T. 1290923 (?) -

Carrier Universal Mk.I - 14th (Polish) Regiment (Jaziovieckis Uhlans) - 1942 - Scotland ? - Pic in Wydanictwo Militaria No.196 '1st Armoured Division 1939-1945' - Via Michael Grieve Archive

T. 1292746 - 'PERS'

Carrier Universal Mk.I - 1st (Polish) Motorised Artillery Regiment - Date u/k - UK - Pic via 'Od Acromy do Zwyciezcy', Kaminski, Vol 9

T. 1292853 -

Valentine I or II - 24th (Polish) Lancers - 1942/43 - Scotland - Veh noted in pic used in 'Od Acromy do Zwyciezcy - Vol 8'

T. 1292858 -

Valentine I or II - C Sqn, 66 Tank Battalion & 2nd Tank Battalion, 16th (Polish) Armd Bde - '073' with 66 Tk Bn - Jan 43 - No on pic in Vanguard No.30 via Gwyn Evans & Lexicon of Armd Forces, Vol.1

T. 1292923 -

Carrier Universial - 2nd Rifle Bn, 10th (Polish) Cav Bde (later 14th Jazlowiecki Lancers) - 1940 ? - UK. Veh pic in 'Od Acromy do Zwyciezcy - Vol 6'

T. 1293000 -

Carrier Universial - 10th (Polish) Mounted Rifle Regiment, 1st (Polish) Armoured Division - Scotland - Veh noted in pic used in 'Od Acromy do Zwyciezcy - Vol 8'

T. 1293047 -

Churchill II - Poss 66th (Polish) Tank Battalion, 16th (Polish) Armd Bde - Date u/k - UK - Pic via 'Od Acromy do Zwyciezcy', Kaminski, Vol 9

T. 1293042 -

Churchill II - Prob 66th (Polish) Tank Battalion, 16th (Polish) Armd Bde - 1942 - Scotland - Pic in Wydanictwo Militaria No.196 '1st Armoured Division 1939-1945'

T. 1293048 -

Churchill II - Prob 66th (Polish) Tank Battalion, 16th (Polish) Armd Bde 1942 - Scotland ? - Pic in Wydanictwo Militaria No.196 '1st Armoured Division 1939-1945' - Via Michael Grieve Archive

T. 1293115 -

Carrier TCP - 1st (Polish) Armoured Division - Pic via Kaminski Archive, Vol 9

T. 1293172 -

Covenanter II - RHQ, 65th Tk Bn, 1st (Polish) Tank Regiment, 1st (Polish) Corps - 1942 - Scotland ? - Pic in Wydanictwo Militaria No.196 '1st Armoured Division 1939-1945' - Via Michael Grieve Archive - Also noted in 'Od Acromy do Zwyciezcy' , Vol 6

T. 1293176 - Covenanter II - 65th (Polish) Tank Battalion & HQ Sqn, 1st (Polish) Tank Regiment - Veh had '072' in box on fnt - 1941 - Scotland ? - Pic in Wydanictwo Militaria No.196 '1st Armoured Division 1939-1945' & Lexicon of Armd Forces, Vol.1

T. 1293177 -

Covenanter II - Not Known 1st (Polish) Tank Regiment, 1st (Polish) Corps - 1941 - Scotland - Pic in Wydanictwo Militaria No.196 '1st Armoured Division 1939-1945'

T. 1293178 -

Covenanter II - RHQ, 65th Tk Bn, 1st (Polish) Tank Regiment, 1st (Polish) Corps - 1941 - Scotland ? - Pic in Wydanictwo Militaria No.196 '1st Armoured Division 1939-1945' - Via Michael Grieve Archive

T. 1293200 -

Covenanter II - Poss Guards Armd Div & Armd School, 1st (Polish) Corps - 1940/41 ? - UK. Veh pic in 'Od Acromy do Zwyciezcy - Vol 6'

T. 1293246 -

Crusader II - RHQ, 1st (Polish) Tank Regiment - 1941/42 ? - Veh pic in 'Od Acromy do Zwyciezcy - Vol 7'

T. 1293249 -

Loyd Carrier - HQ Sqn, 10th (Polish) Mounted Rifle Regiment - '51' on mudguard - 1943/44 - Scotland - Veh noted in pic used in 'Od Acromy do Zwyciezcy - Vol 8'

T. 1293374 -

Covenanter II - RHQ, 65th Tk Bn & 1st (Polish) Tank Regiment, 1st (Polish) Corps - Veh had '072' in box on front 1941 - Scotland ? - Pic in Wydanictwo Militaria No.196 '1st Armoured Division 1939-1945' & also in 'Od Acromy do Zwyciezcy - Vol 7'

T. 1367288 - 'WYSOKIE'

Crusader III - 1 Tp, B Sqn, 1st (Polish) Armoured Regiment - Pic via 'Od Acromy do Zwyciezcy', Kaminski, Vol 9

T. 1367296 -

Crusader III - 1st (Polish) Armoured Regiment - 1942 - Chippenham, UK - Pic in Wydanictwo Militaria No.196 '1st Armoured Division 1939-1945' - Via Michael Grieve Archive

T. 2612884 -

Carrier - Polish Armed Forces - Info via MLU Forum

[Roddy de Normann]

Kevin -

As far as I can deduce, CT nos were only assigned to those vehs that were manufactured in Canada. Certainly all the tanks that were used by the Canadians (less Rams & Grizzlies) that were handed back into 25 CADR had T nos, not CT nos...

Roddy

[Bodston]

Originally Posted by Roddy1011

Hi to all -

Ref the Polish WD Nos used in the UK, I have only really noted these for vehs used by the Poles between 1940 to 1942. I have also noted - but can not for the life of remember where from - that vehs issued to other Occupied Nations - Dutch & Belgians for instance - also used the longer nos.

All those that I have noted to date are based on photo evidence - I have not seen any evidence from docs to date. Perhaps other members have ?

I have another one for you. An original photograph from my collection of a Polish Carrier T1290216. The photograph has been cropped but part of the type written inscription is still legible, "...Scotland after his return from the United States... During parade". The image is also extensively stamped on the reverse with variously "Republic of Poland Ministry of Information Foto Service", "Polish Army G.H.Q. Chief Censor", "34 NOT to be published" and the date "18 Jan 1943". There are also several stamps in Polish "Deleget weiskowy do sp..." and I think the photographers name and signature, "Boguslawski pplk. dypl. - Lt. Col."

Edit: More excellent Polish Tank photographs here

[kevinT]

Hi Bodston,

With the above, Roddys additions and a few other numbers I have some 60 odd 7 digit Polish and Belgian WD serials. I would certainly be interested in anymore you may have in your collection.
Do you know if these 7 digit numbers were issued to new vehicles or re-issued to older vehicles with 6 digit numbers.
Thanks again for posting.

Cheers
Kevin

[Roddy de Normann]

Many thanks for posting the Carrier pic and the links - they are good pics. Numbers now added to the listing !

Ref your pic, the name I think probably refers to the officer saluting in the carrier. He is likely to be the Commanding Officer (Lt Col)...so if you might be able to match his name to the unit. I'll give it a go.

Many thanks again,

Roddy

[Garry Shipton (RIP)]

Originally posted by Dana Nield
I have decal artwork done for this model which will be released in the near future.

Dana,
I've completed a Tamiya version of Bomb.She's all painted up with the Sherbrooke markings.The only decals missing are the word Bomb & serial number,plus the C111 on the front.Are you including these exact decal when you mfg them
Garry

[Dana Nield]

Hi Gary,

Here is a test shot of the sheet. It is a png file so it may not work on some browsers.



The left and right side census numbers and Bomb script were designed after careful examination of photos of the vehicles left and right side. The decal was designed for a friend who is building a model of bomb and I included some things that were not in the photos (Taken at the end of the war) but may have been on the vehicle at some time. This includes the rear Division and Arm of Service marks and the turret Sqn identifiers. The maple leaves show up as white as this is an export of a corel file and I had set them to print on a seperate layer. One was gold leaf, which is the colour of the leaf on the 1:1 scale decals that were applied to the vehicle, the other was yellow, which was the colour they were when the markings were hand painted. Also the plumes are not shown on the "bomb" as they apparently were added and grew in number as the war dragged on.

I'm not too sure when they will be released, but I will have further info next month on the subject. I also have markings ready for the Lake Superior Regiment's Ram Badger, based on the well known photo of that regiment's vehicle turning the corner through a Dutch town.

As always, if anyone needs decals produced, be they in 1:1 scale, or anything smaller, please contact me. If I don't already produce it, I'll see about doing it as a custom order.


Cheers!

Dana

[Garry Shipton (RIP)]

That's what I'm looking for!Are they going to be 1/35 th scale?.As far as the bomb on the side is concerned,I can add the flames
I already have the correct unit markings,down to the blue square on the sides of the turret.I'm doing the tank as will probably be marked down in Sherbrooke,as a monmument
Garry

[Dana Nield]

Yes, they will be available in 1/35 scale and later in 1/72 and 1/76.

Cheers!

Dana

[John McGillivray]

This is the first that I have heard of the Formations Models M4A2. Can you give some details about it. Dose it have the direct vision ports? Is it a complete kit or is it a conversion?

Thank you,
John.

[Garry Shipton (RIP)]

John,
I was on the site yesterday.It's only internals,not a complete kit.Type in Formations Models,go to seach,& you'll be on their site
Garry

[John McGillivray]

Gerry,
I found their web site but there is nothing about the M4A2 kit.
Anyway, a resin conversion kit is outside of my price range. Lets hope that someone comes out with a PS kit sometime in the near future.

John

http://www.formationsmodels.com/index.html

[Dana Nield]

Academy announced recently that in addition to the M3 Lee, M3 Grant and M3 Cast hull Lee kits, that they will also release an M4A2. Noting that nothing Academy announces is carved in stone, I think that these will actually see the light of day sooner than later as many of the components that would be used are already existing, especially for the M4A2, in the M10 and M12 series.

Cheers!

Dana

[Dana Nield]

Here they are:

Link

[Garry Shipton (RIP)]

Originally posted by Dana Nield
Yes, they will be available in 1/35 scale and later in 1/72 and 1/76.

ALL RIGHT Dana!!

Where do I send my cheque & what price Canadian?I assume NO Quebec salestax(Hopefully)??for 1/35th scale for the "Bomb"decal
Poor model.still sitting here undressed!!
Garry

[Dana Nield]

Just visit the site and use the shopping cart!

Cheers!

Dana

Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
It was brought back and is presently a plinth vehicle in Sherbrooke Quebec. You can't do better than that!

Well, I hope they tidied up the grousers. . . . . . . . . . .

R.

The First Hussars brought back a M4A2 to London, Ontario that landed on D-Day and made it to VE-Day. CT 152655, HOLY ROLLER. Logged 2,500 miles from France to Godensholt, Germany.
At Apeldoorn, Holland she went up against a 75 mm A/T gun and finished a close second, needed a new drive sprocket and some track before carrying on.

Originally posted by Perry Kitson
The First Hussars brought back a M4A2 to London, Ontario that landed on D-Day and made it to VE-Day. CT 152655, HOLY ROLLER. Logged 2,500 miles from France to Godensholt, Germany.
At Apeldoorn, Holland she went up against a 75 mm A/T gun and finished a close second, needed a new drive sprocket and some track before carrying on.

Fascinating!
An almost charmed existence, especially if this refers to a PAK40/L46 which I understand is quite capable of making 2 holes in a Sherman from a fair distance too.

R.

[Crewman]

Originally posted by kevinT
I am currently working on the Formations Models M4A2. ( lovely kit it is too ).
I am looking for Canadian / British units that used the Sherman III, in NWE preferably.
Any tank names, matching WD numbers would be a bonus.
Cheers
Kevin T

Hi,

Restricted number of the M4A2s was also in the Polish 1st Armoured Division, Canadian 2nd Corps, ETO 1944-45. They served in the divisional HQ Squadron.

Also the Sherman III Dozers, ARVs and Fascine Carriers were used by this division in NWE.


Best regards

C.

[kevinT]

Thank you for your post Crewman.
Are you aware of any named vehicles or WD serial numbers of tanks used by these units?
Thanks for any info supplied.

Cheers
KevinT

[Crewman]

Originally posted by kevinT
Thank you for your post Crewman.
Are you aware of any named vehicles or WD serial numbers of tanks used by these units?
Thanks for any info supplied.

Cheers
KevinT

Hi Kevin,

There is a kind of eight-volume encyclopedia of all Polish tanks and the other AFVs that fought in the MTO and ETO and that had their own names painted on the armour. I do not have all volumes unfortunately. There are also the other various monographs of the Polish Shermans or the units that used them. Give me a week or two and I will check much deeper Polish ETO Sherman IIIs because you seem to be interested mainly in this front. But do not expect too much -- M4A2s were used by the Poles in large quantities in the MTO but not ETO, what is more in Italy we had II Corps in NWE only one armoured division.

What I may write now, I know six color plates where the Polish Sherman IIIs from NWE are showed. The only one classic combat variant of them belongs to the HQ Squadron of the Polish 1st Armoured Division. The tank comes from August 1944 period. It has one-tone SCC No. 15 Olive Drab camouflage scheme. No WD serial which is painted out. It has only typical white stars on the hull sides. The other markings situated in typical tank places are as follows:

Bridge Classification Number -- 40

Unit AoS -- 40

Formation Sign -- 1st Armoured Div. badge, see below

National markings -- PL in oval




The other Polish Sherman IIIs from NWE I know are support vehicles or non-combat:

▪ Sherman III ARV, 24th Ulans Regiment, 1st Armoured Div., T148322

▪ Sherman III ARV, 24th Ulans Regiment, 1st Armoured Div., T267

▪ Sherman III ARV, 3rd Squadron, 2nd Armoured Regiment, 1st Armoured Div. No WD serial.

▪ Sherman III Fascine Carrier, unidentified unit of the Polish 1st Armoured Div. No WD serial, no other markings on the side surfaces.

▪ Sherman III Dozer, unidentified unit of the Polish 1st Armoured Div. No WD serial, no other markings on the side surfaces.



Best regards

C.

[kevinT]

Thank you for your reply.
The colour plates are very useful.
I have some 200+ names for Shermans, Stuarts, Scout cars etc but only around 60 odd WD serial numbers. The vast majority of these are from regiments from the 2nd Armoured Division. I have hardly any from 1st Armoured Division.
Any information you have will be a great bonus.
Thanks again for your time.

Cheers
KevinT

[Crewman]

Hello Kevin,

Originally posted by kevinT
Thank you for your reply.
The colour plates are very useful.
I have some 200+ names for Shermans, Stuarts, Scout cars etc but only around 60 odd WD serial numbers. [...] I have hardly any from 1st Armoured Division.
Any information you have will be a great bonus.
Thanks again for your time.

I will post interesting data for you soon but I need time to collect them from approx. eight books. Wait please patiently and you will have various WD serials and names of the AFVs used by the Polish 1st Armoured Division in UK and ETO.

Originally posted by kevinT
The vast majority of these are from regiments from the 2nd Armoured Division.

Oh yes...

This is real catastrophe...

I am afraid that in this 2nd Division (ex-2nd Brigade) not only every one tank, AFV and lorry but also every one motorcycle, bicycle and cart has its own name of the Polish girl, city, town, village, region and whatever else...


Best regards

C.

[kevinT]

Thank you for that. I look forward to receiving that information.
Could you also explain why some Polish tanks have 7 digit WD T serial numbers.

Cheers
KevinT

[tankbarrell]

Originally posted by FV623
Well, I hope they tidied up the grousers. . . . . . . . . . .

R.

Those are extended end connectors, used to increase flotation. Grousers are the bar on the track pad used to increase traction.