Lost HUP Pilot Model Found?

[RHClarke]

I was recently pointed toward a Facebook page by Brian Gough, who asked me if I sensed something different about some of the HUP photos posted at this page: https://www.facebook.com/ChevroletC8A/?ref=ts&fref=ts

On January 19th, P Bergman posted two photos of a particular HUP. I briefly glanced at the photos and something caught my eye, but other priorities lead me away from further investigation. Until Brian teased me with an interesting question. I reviewed the photos again and was somewhat stunned.

The first photo:
Lost HUP Pilot 1.jpg

The second photo:
Lost HUP Pilot 2.jpg

Thanks to P. Bergman for allowing me to post these photos on MLU.

This truck looks like a pilot model. When compared to my 1942 Pilot Model HUP, a few similarities come up:
- double barn doors in the rear
- thin metal window frames
- side "vent" windows near the front of the cab
- smaller driver and pax doors
- location of the hinges on the front doors

Some differences also show:
- late model wheel hub lifting rings on front and rear axles
- square front air observation hatch that looks like the hinged variety, with a OJC bar
- the rear of the body is not sloped - see next factory photo.
Pilot factor photo two.jpg

I have been told that there were two Pilot Models hand built by GM as proof of concept vehicles that were presented to the Army for approval. From these two models the Heavy Utility line of vehicles were produced.

Could this HUP be the long lost second Pilot Model? Any thoughts?

[Brian Gough]

Rob,

Thanks for doing the posting. I wasn't aware there was talk of a second pilot model.

I hope there will be some answers forthcoming or at least some good speculation on this mystery HUP. And then there is always the question of how they got out and into the system e.g. who owned them to get rid of them, GM or the military?

Brian

[Bob Carriere]

Both the pictures of the Kabelwerken truck has no rear pass. side door handles.
Inside view of the rear double door look different than your pilot.

Your Pilot did have door handles on all doors and so does the 3rd picture.

The 1/4 window in front of the kabelwerken truck looks smaller than your pilot model.

IF it was a second pilot model..... what was it doing in Europe????? sent to be evaluated by the Brits than sold as surplus.... but why on the Continent??

Cheers

[RHClarke]

From Bob in Hammond:

Both the pictures of the Kabelwerken truck has no rear pass. side door handles. Could have been removed.

Inside view of the rear double door look different than your pilot.Yes, but they were hand made so perhaps there was a second team tasked to produce a door with a different inside?

Your Pilot did have door handles on all doors and so does the 3rd picture. Third pic is from the factory -it is a shot of the Pilot Model

The 1/4 window in front of the kabelwerken truck looks smaller than your pilot model. I agree, but why would folks go to all that work to convert the doors and hinges?

IF it was a second pilot model..... what was it doing in Europe?????A great question. sent to be evaluated by the Brits As good a theory as any.than sold as surplus.... but why on the Continent??Would the Brits leave such an important task such as evaluation to us mere colonials? Or would they have been busy on other priorities?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Very interesting and well spotted!

But I would place my bets on a converted HUP. I have pictures of a C15 with coach built front doors like on the subject HUP so it has doors with proper sliding windows (photos to follow later). Likewise the single rear door could have been replaced by coach built doors to give better access.
Bear in mind that in post-war Holland there were a lot of coach built conversions to make surplus Army trucks better suited to post-war civilian needs.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Rob,

I think we have seen these pics on the forum before. The original images are from the Amsterdam city archives and were taken in 1953.

Here are the originals......the pictures can be enlarged quite a bit and might give some more clues.

http://beeldbank.amsterdam.nl/beeldb...%5D=Geuzenveld

http://beeldbank.amsterdam.nl/beeldb...%5D=Geuzenveld

http://beeldbank.amsterdam.nl/beeldb...%5D=Geuzenveld

source:http://beeldbank.amsterdam.nl/


Alex

[Barry Churcher]

I am inclined to agree with Hanno. If you look closely at the photos that Alex refers to and blow them up, the rear doors really look to have a wooden frame.
Barry

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Now with updated links and pictures attached - make sure to check the sources and download the full-size scans if you wish

5293FO001526_resized.jpg
Source: https://beeldbank.amsterdam.nl/afbeelding/5293FO001526

5293FO001523_resized.jpg
Source: https://beeldbank.amsterdam.nl/afbeelding/5293FO001523

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

Rob,

I think we have seen these pics on the forum before. The original images are from the Amsterdam city archives and were taken in 1953.

Here are the originals......the pictures can be enlarged quite a bit and might give some more clues.

http://beeldbank.amsterdam.nl/beeldb...%5D=Geuzenveld

http://beeldbank.amsterdam.nl/beeldb...%5D=Geuzenveld

http://beeldbank.amsterdam.nl/beeldb...%5D=Geuzenveld

source:http://beeldbank.amsterdam.nl/


Alex

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

But I would place my bets on a converted HUP. I have pictures of a C15 with coach built front doors like on the subject HUP so it has doors with proper sliding windows (photos to follow later).

Here are the coach built doors on the C15:

IMG_2565.jpg IMG_2566.jpg

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Here are the coach built doors on the C15:

Hanno, Do you know if there was a post war (1950 onwards) Dutch motor vehicle law that directed that vehicles have proper doors fitted with windows? If so, then there should be lots of examples of coach built doors on left over or ceded CMPs - in theory at least. I ask only because I surmise that it would take a bit of work by a good body man to change the doors and add the side front windows. Why do it unless directed to do so? Or perhaps it was a necessity given the damp weather one may find in Holland during three seasons? Adding a weather tight door and good window certainly would address weather issues.

These two theories (law and weather) may have pushed the owner of the HUP pictured in the first posting in this thread to add the doors and windows. The fact that they look somewhat like those doors and windows found on the Pilot Model sparked my curiosity.

100_1975.jpg Pilot Model Door

prototype wins.jpg Pilot Model Windows

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by Brian Gough

Rob, Thanks for doing the posting. I wasn't aware there was talk of a second pilot model. I hope there will be some answers forthcoming or at least some good speculation on this mystery HUP. And then there is always the question of how they got out and into the system e.g. who owned them to get rid of them, GM or the military?

Brian

Brian, I am trying to find out when and where I heard about the second Pilot Model. At the time I said that it made little or no sense to produce two trucks when clearly one would do. But, who knows...?