C8A HUW: body dimensional data needed

[Jerry Hill]

Sadly I had a shunt on a convoy last weekend. I now have an unexpected winter project! I'd appreciate body dimensional data for the front end as I'll be involved in body pulling work.

I ran into the back of a GMC Jimmy and stoved in the front end, wrapping the rad against the engine, thus pushing the front panel badly out of shape. the front doors have impacted the 'B' post, which needs limited pulling.

What I'm in need of is the correct dimensions of the windscreen (A post) pillar angles and dimensions to ensure we get them absolutely right.

Jerry

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Jerry

Just so we/us HUP owners can start feeding you measurements, can you give us a photo of the damaged area with any particular measurements you need marked. Also if you can give us any bench marks like hinge points, particular bolt holes then we can start posting measure for you.

I'll measure the window post angle in the morning, my angle level is good too about 1 degree.

Cheers Phil

[Jerry Hill]

Hi Phil

Thank you for your really helpful reply.

I've taken several photos which should help. I've just got to figure out how to load them onto the forum.

The angles I'm after are: the A post (windscreen pillar) back edge to the underside of the roof gutter. And the angle of the forward edge of the A post (windscreen pillar) to the vertical section below (to which the front Bonnet/wing assy attaches).

Any help much appreciated.

Best

Jerry

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Jerry

Ouch.

Will start measuring tomorrow, I've printed out your photos and will try and plug in some of the angles and measurements that might help to get started.

From the photo bellow it looks like it pushed the grill in a good eight inches. Did it shift the body back on the frame as well? Do you have the frame measurements to check that it is square?

C8adamage3013 Jerry Hill.jpg

Obviously this crunched the radiator and fan does it look like it moved the engine back?

Now what year is your truck and does it have middle doors on both sides?

Are the front doors still operable or do you need opening measurements?

If someone else could confirm the measurements from another HUP or HUW as a double check of my measurements that would probably help.

Cheers Phil

[Jerry Hill]

Phil

I haven't checked the body mounts, but will after we complete work planned for the coming weekend.

I've opened the bonnet (hood) and the rad is wrapped around the fan blades/water pump. The top tank looks good. I'll see the lower tank situation at the w/e alongwith the bottom pulley situation. At this stage the engine does not appear to have shifted.

It's '43 HUW and has two central doors (pre-dating the spare wheel variant). The B posts have both been slightly pushed by the doors distorting at the striker plate. We can pull both b posts out without too much difficulty.

The front door inner panels have both de-formed. We will remove the outer skin (which is OK) and correct the inner panel deformation and refit. The critical alignment therefore will be those angles you're looking into around the A posts.

This w/e we'll remove the front panel assy and probably remove the radiator. We can then look at the remaining issues of body mounts, engine movement etc.

Of the nudge bar mounting bolts (which were modern metric) all but one sheared, resulting in the bumper drooping to one side and deforming the chassis rail as it twisted downwards.

I'll send you some pics once we've got the front panel off. The front panel will be rebuilt with new sheet metal and re-aligned angle iron framework. Mercifully one of our group is a retired blacksmith/welder of great skill & experience and can work miracles. The radiator will be replaced/rebuilt.

So as you can see I have a project for next winter!

Jerry

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

You must feel awful!! I'm so glad you are going about fixing the old gal. I have one in the garage and can help out if you still need it.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Jerry

Re-shot many of the photos and have posted them to a new page on my web page http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/H...lsofAngles.htm click on any of the photo and you should go to the original photo resolution.

From your last post you are making very good progress, at a fast pace.

Let me know what other info I can help with.

Cheers Phil

Added Info- Remember to take into account that floor of shop is dead level, but my HUP has a 1-2 degree nose down angle.

[Mike K]

I thought that most restorers install the metal timing gear , the metal version is less prone to stripping its teeth Mike

[Jerry Hill]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

I thought that most restorers install the metal timing gear , the metal version is less prone to stripping its teeth Mike

Hi Mike

You're right, but I felt the original gear had worked well for 70 years, so the fibre wheel can't be all bad.

The original gear showed no signs of damage, but after being knocked in the accident the risk of timing gear failure would be higher & the result catastrophic, so I wasn't going to take chances. Thanks to Phil for the advise.

Best

Jerry

[Jerry Hill]

Our trip to the quarry early on Friday bore fruit. A nice straight fan and grill, plus a straight if grubby radiator. The photos show both sides of the banana shaped original and replacement. We'll use the original carrying frame which straightened out nicely.

I've trial fitted the bumper after straightening the passenger side frame damage. I took the opportunity to weld up a crack from a mounting hole. Both the bumper and nudge bar have an appointment with the 30 something ton Press. The nudge bar damage is easily seen. The bumper needs a tweak on both sides to correct action from the distant past.

The radiator carrier straightened out nicely and the front cross member aligns nicely, both are fitted. They will get bolted back properly after we've got the bumper and radiator back. The new fan has had a needle gunning and a coat of paint and scrubbed up nicely.

This week it'll be off to the radiator mender for a refurbish and a re-core, this will be costly. More corrective work on the front panel and split the doors to decide how we'll straighten them. Then it's re-align the A & B posts.

I'm trying to get as much done as possible before the weather gets grim and working outside becomes miserable. So far so good.

Jerry

[Jerry Hill]

A weekend away saw little progress, but the rebuilt radiator is due in one weeks time. When we get it back & fitted we'll be able to move the vehicle about freely and make a start on pulling out the B & A posts respectively.

In the meantime the bumper and associated bits have been straightened on the trusty 60 ton press and refitted to complete that part of the project.

We've decided to repair the trickiest centre (bonnet) part of the front panel. Today we cut off the top section and straightened it out with the trusty press & welded up a split, the trial fit with the bonnet lid is a pass and is put aside for later. We removed the bottom carrier and straightened that also, leaving us with the tricky centre section, which we will cut down into three pieces and do our best to get them back into the right shape, before welding back into a sub assy. We may have to resort to replacing the uprights with new pressings as they are a bit of a mess.

Anyway onward and upwards....

Jerry

[Jerry Hill]

Originally Posted by Phil Waterman

Hi Jerry

Re-shot many of the photos and have posted them to a new page on my web page http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/H...lsofAngles.htm click on any of the photo and you should go to the original photo resolution.

From your last post you are making very good progress, at a fast pace.

Let me know what other info I can help with.

Cheers Phil

Added Info- Remember to take into account that floor of shop is dead level, but my HUP has a 1-2 degree nose down angle.

Phil

That's much better, thank you so much, that's a huge help.

I've just received some pics of the derelict C15 in a quarry near Norwich, hopefully we'll start the ball rolling to get the radiator out and down for a new matrix.

Best

Jerry

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Jerry

The link below goes the top of the lower windshield ledge which reads as 1 1/2 degree up angle toward the front

http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/R...02nd%20004.jpg

Which compared with under side of the body which seems shows the same angle this would seem to indicate that top of the window ledge should be parallel to the floor.

http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/H...lsofAngles.htm

Wonder if someone else could confirm on another HUP also does anyone have a way of measuring these angles with a higher accuracy?

Cheers Phil

[Jerry Hill]

Well on Monday we straightened out the inner wings. First pic shows the one in the background before treatment in the press and one after in the fore ground. On Monday we collected the reworked radiator pic 2 which set me back a small fortune. Pic 3 & 4 show the radiator installed and ready to fill. Pic 5, she's coming together. I filled the rad with a 50% Bluecol mix ready for winter and started her up, wonderful, then dammit the flexxy hose to the oil pressure gauge gave up its mortal coil and peed all over the shop. A blessing in disguise I told myself. Another little job...
Jerry

[Jerry Hill]

Wednesday was spent cutting the vertical and base pieces of the centre section of the front panel to enable us to get a sporting chance of straightening them up to use as samples for the replacements we pressed last week.

We aligned all the bits of the centre section of the panel for a trial fit. Anyway after sometime we'd got it aligned as best we could and Richard kindly tack welded them. We offered them up to the vehicle, pics 1-3, to see how bad things are and were surprised to see how good the fit is. So we'll start making the replacement vertical pressings fit and weld them up ready for the end result.

We also need to decide what to do with the front bulkhead. The distortion is quite small, see final pic, but I want it right, so we'll pull it back to shape as described before. This needs to be done in conjunction with the repairs to the front doors which will be the next to be tackled, to ensure a good fit.

The ruptured oil line to the oil pressure gauge has been replaced and a radiator overflow hose has been fitted.

Jerry

[Jerry Hill]

Today we took the plunge and copied as best we could the mocked up the nose section with the newly pressed 2mm zintec pieces. After one false start we got the hang of it. By close of play we'd made up the new nose section, some tack welds and some proper final welds. We used a spare grill to ensure the alignment was right. There's more to do, but we're pleased with the outcome so far. We need to angle grind the ducting to fit the radiator, which will then be welded up. A few little jobs like the bonnet catches and a couple of fillets are needed. The final job will be robust. Jerry

[Jerry Hill]

When last I wrote we'd made up the new centre front panel, after a fair bit of time trimming and fitting it didn't pass muster. So plan B was called for, that being a drive through the Suffolk lanes down to the workshop where we could do a proper on vehicle fitting job. For this we had to make the vehicle almost road worthy (no lights).

The front doors were trial fitted to establish how much we'd have to pull the front bulkhead to get everything back to shape. The drivers side was attacked first as this was easiest.

Next the passengers side. In Pic1 we've shunted the truck against our long suffering car repair ash tree. A wooden block was buffered between tree and the bumper adjacent to the chassis. Three cargo pulls were gradually loaded up to pull out the deformation.

Pic 2 shows each strap was located over each body post and pretty tight they were.

Pic 3 shows the string marker nicely aligned on completion. The drivers door closes beautifully but will need cosmetic repairs later. The passengers door will need dismantling and pressing straight.

Pic 4 shows her ready for the drive down to the 'surgery', note the doors fit, however you can see why the front centre panel was rejected as it's too short/inboard at the base, as can also be seen on Pic 5.

I can tell you it was a chilly old run up to the workshop. But it was worth it as we're well underway to sorting out the front panel, more news later in the week I hope.

Jerry