Aec "dorchester" armoured command vehicle

cliff · #1 02-03-13, 09:08

I have just started making this AFV 1/35 scale vehicle with full interior including a #19 radio and while reading the instructions I found that 7 of these vehicles were given to the Australian Forces in the Middle East to use during the battles fought there.

Now I have several questions about this so if Mike Cecil or other knowledgable folk out there can help I'd appreciate it.

Did the Australians accually have these and were they marked with Australian Formation signs and numbers?

Is there anywhere on line or otherwise that show photos of these vehicles in Australian Service?

Any help appreciated

The AEC Command vehicles were based on the AEC Matador and I believe AFV models is going to bring out a Matador kit as well later in the year and if it is as good as this kit it will be a winner

Tony Wheeler · #2 02-03-13, 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by cliff

while reading the instructions I found that 7 of these vehicles were given to the Australian Forces in the Middle East

I recall reading recently that Australians were given 7 Matadors in the ME, but I assumed they were HAA gun tractors as seen in pic 1. If so, I wonder if this is the origin of the 7 Dorchester story...? I'll try to track down the reference.

Armour isn't my field so I only have one Dorchester pic, which looks British to my untrained eye. I can't recall where I found it but I'm sure I could track it down if need be.

George Moore · #3 02-03-13, 23:40

Interesting photo of the Dorchester especially as it has been camouflaged to look like a truck.
This design was one of the those by Major Jasper Maskelyne, a famous stage magician in civilian life.
Though not rare, photgraphs are few and far between of this scheme.

George.

Tony Smith · #4 03-03-13, 07:51

Cliff, THIS OLD THREAD shows a bit of accumulated info on the Dorchester. It features Bob Dimer's Dorchester (at that time) which appears to have an ARN 138713 and WD No.4137719, which would suggest Aust Army ownership. To determine the date of this acquistion, you'd have to check the AWM ARN books for 138713.

cliff · #5 03-03-13, 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

Cliff, THIS OLD THREAD shows a bit of accumulated info on the Dorchester. It features Bob Dimer's Dorchester (at that time) which appears to have an ARN 138713 and WD No.4137719, which would suggest Aust Army ownership. To determine the date of this acquistion, you'd have to check the AWM ARN books for 138713.

Thanks Tony. Can anyone who has access to the ARN books look this up for me please? Be nice to finish this model as an Aussie one if possible

lynx42 · #6 03-03-13, 12:35

Cliff, there is or was a Dorchester in the to be restored collection at the Puckapunyal Armoured Museum a few years ago. It was out the back, just the hull, they were looking for a Matador chassis to put under it. Maybe a call to them might give up some details.

regards Rick.

By the way, should this be under the Armoured Section?

George Moore · #7 03-03-13, 12:51

Cliff, by way of interest, the "OLD THREAD" has some interior shots, though badly rusted, what could be the original interior colour can still be seen in parts.....white or cream!

I guess you have seen the discussion on Missing Links re the interior of these beasties ????
It looks as if the chequered pattern on the ceiling was some sort of adhesive to secure the padding "sound proofing", or maybe even a form of heat insulation for use in the desert ??

George.

cliff · #8 03-03-13, 13:42

Hi George I have not seen the item on Missing Links as I am not a member there. Just finished the chassis and started the rear floor area. I will do mine as an Australian one so may paint it in different colours yet but the interior will be white.

cliff · #9 03-03-13, 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by lynx42

By the way, should this be under the Armoured Section?

Not really as it is a truck chassis under all that armour plate

Tony Wheeler · #10 04-03-13, 05:37

I found the Dorchester photo again, it's on the NZ National Library site. This is an excellent site for MV photos - extensive collection, high quality images, powerful search functions, and you can even access the high res image and zoom in on detail. As opposed to AWM who want $40 for their high res images!

http://mp.natlib.govt.nz/detail/?id=...raphic+Archive

Scroll to bottom of page and click on "View Archived Image on NDHA"

lynx42 · #11 04-03-13, 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by cliff

Not really as it is a truck chassis under all that armour plate

That is one way of looking at it, Cliff, but what about the Rolls-Royce Silver Ghost based Armoured Cars and many other commercially based armoured vehicles.

They are nearly always are in the Armoured section, not the Soft Skin Forum.

Maybe this is one for the other moderators to decide on.

Regards Rick.

PS.Have you got dry feet yet?

Hanno Spoelstra · #12 06-03-13, 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by lynx42

By the way, should this be under the Armoured Section?

Rick,

Of course it should, the Army classified ACV's as "A" type vehicles. Cliff probably placed this thread in the softskin forum - for "B" type vehicles - as he's going to paint his model as an ACV camouflaged as a truck

Both brilliant camouflage, by the way.

H.

Will B · #13 10-04-17, 17:31

There is a Dorchester in the Merredin Military Museum fully restored . It is owned privately but is displayed there . The story goes that there were 7 Dorchesters in WA in the ww2 , Four of them were cut up for grader blades ,one went back to England , one that nobody know what happen to it and the one in Merredin , The merredin one was found in a back yard in Bayswater and was being used as a garden shed , all it was , was a shell , no running gear .the back yard was very close to a site used a scrape metal yard for many years and that may have been were the lost one may have gone ,

It changed hands a few times before it tuned up in Merredin , A chap name Mal spent five year off an on restoring it . Mal has since past away and his Wife has left it on display ,

It was stationed in Northan , Nungarran & Merredin at differant times . In 1945 a VULTEE VENGEANCE crash ( http://www.ozatwar.com/ozcrashes/wa88.htm ) and the same Dorchester that is in Merredin was used as a command vechicle for the search for the crew an plane,

If im able to help you with anything else just ask .

Will B · #14 10-04-17, 17:50

The photo's of the German ones, Rommel troops captured three Dorchester's at a road block , Pommel decided to use two of them one as a command post and the other as his sleeping quarters .

When he English use them , they used them in threes , one for the officers . one as the radio room and one for listening in on enermy radios and questioning prisoner .

Mike Cecil · #15 10-04-17, 20:24

Hi Will,

There were indeed seven AEC ACV imported to Australia during the Second World War. All were retained in the post war period, and most were disposed of in 1960 from ordnance depots in the eastern states. Two were converted to training aids in 1958.

Two bodies/hulls are known to still exist:

The body/hull at Merredin was recovered by the late Bob Dimer, who also matched it to an AEC Matador chassis/running gear which he recovered from a quarry operation near Geelong in Victoria.

The other is a stripped-out hull at the Army Tank Museum at Puckapunyal.

Regards

Mike