ethanol......is it bad?

[elvis3006]

is it safe to run ethanol based fuels in our MV's? i have a 43 GPW and a 44 WC51. thanks

[chris vickery]

Ethanol is corrosive in contact with rubber components like fuel lines, gaskets seals etc. Most modern vehs overcome this as they are manufactured using synthentics in the fuel lines which are resistant to modern fuel and fuel additives.

Personally I would not sweat it much but would avoid using fuel from the farm stores etc or ones advertsied as ethanol. The percentage of ethanol in most unleaded gasoline is less than 10%. Considering that you have mostly steel lines on mvs, the small bit of rubber is hardly woth the worry. If it bothers you, go to the auto supply store and get some neoprene fuel line and put your worries to rest...

[elvis3006]

thanks Chris.....i guess the alternative is to run premium through it. do you use ethanol based gas?

[Phil Waterman]

With in weeks of its introduction in the States (in particular our MV club area) we started having reports of fuel leaks, gas lines, and fuel pump diaphragms leaks and complete failures. Then later we started getting reports of plugged fuel filters and trash in carbs. Then came tank leaks on fuel tanks that had been sealed with the old yellow tank sealant. Dissolving the sealant also caused problems with plugged fuel filters. They introduced it over the winter and so when spring came the first parade everybody tanked up and the fun began.

So if they are introducing E10 in your area replace all the rubber fuel lines, do not use NOS parts, be sure that the replacement rubber parts actually rated for Ethanol. Do not buy cheap "rubber" fuel lines at the local auto parts, buy Gates or some other top line company.

I can post pictures of what this stuff does to MV fuel system parts I can post some.

They are now talking about let or making the gas companies in the US make E15 which will be even worse. US environmental agency doesn't even take into consideration vehicles made prior to 1990 even those they call legacy vehicles.

E10 goes bad in the carb within a few weeks, will last longer in the tank many MV drivers around here have gone to using marine grade fuel stabilizer.

Strangely the best way to avoid hard starting with CMPs is to drive them more and or replace the manual fuel pump with a electric pump. The electric pumps really help starting as they pump a small amount of fresh gas into the carb before you even try to start it.

Cheers and have fun Phil

[elvis3006]

is there an alternative fuel here in Canada that can be found at any gas station? or are we in our hobby forced to replace/modify fuel systems to accomodate this stuff?

[chris vickery]

Just use regular unleaded fuel and you will be fine. All mvers that I know do that without a problem, I do too.

I only stated to stay away from the UPI farm stations and others that promote ethanol in the fuel. Typically there is more added in winter »(gas line antifreeze)

Do not use premium in your vintage vehicle as they were not intended to run on high octane levels. Of course the experts will chime in here, there is an exception to every rule, that being situations where an engine has been rebuilt to modern standards or suped up etc.
As far as changinging things to accomodate modern fuel in the system, neoprene fuel line from the auto parts store, modern fuel pump rebuild kits etc are a minimal investment and not really a big deal, if, and should you feel the need to go that way.

What mv do you have?

[elvis3006]

hi Chris i have a 43 GPW and a 44 WC51 3/4 ton truck. Rob

[sapper740]

Originally Posted by elvis3006

is it safe to run ethanol based fuels in our MV's? i have a 43 GPW and a 44 WC51. thanks

A good friend of mine who owns and operates a Mohawk gas station in B.C. had to retro-fit large filters to all his pumps years ago when Mohawk started blending ethanol with their gasoline. The reason as explained to me was that the Ethanol will remove any scale from the underground storage tanks and lines. Of course, it was critically important to filter the fuel before selling it. It's important to ensure that your vehicles have good fuel filters to prevent any scale in your fuel system being loosened by the ethanol from clogging the jets in your carbs. Another alternative is to run 100LL (Avgas) which not only doesn't attack rubber seals and fuel lines, but helps prevent vapour lock much better than Autogas. Further, your valves will love you for it. It can be purchased at any General Aviation airport, just tell the seller that it's for your boat. We used to buy it all the time for the high compression Rats in our Flat-bottoms and Pickle-forks. You can be fined here in the U.S. for running it in your daily commuter, but you are allowed to use it in "Specialty Vehicles" such as race cars etc. I'm not sure about the laws elsewhere. If your conscience will let you burn gas that doesn't have Road Taxes included in the price, go for it.

Regards, Derek.

[Ron Pier]

Cor blimey! you Muricans. Blokes are still festering in the dungeons in the Tower of London for putting red diesel in their trucks to save a few bob! Ron

[sapper740]

Originally Posted by Ron Pier

Cor blimey! you Muricans. Blokes are still festering in the dungeons in the Tower of London for putting red diesel in their trucks to save a few bob! Ron

Well, you know, I am a member of the T.E.A. Party here in the U.S. ;>)

Of course, I'm not suggesting that anyone burn 100LL in their daily commuter, asides from ruining your catalytic converter and dumping more lead into the environment, you can face fines up to $10,000.00 which would quickly eat up any savings...even at European fuel prices!
I did fill up my 1942 GPW once with Avgas when I ran out at an event at the Delta Air Park in B.C. She purred like a kitten all the way home that day.

Derek.

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally Posted by sapper740

Well, you know, I am a member of the T.E.A. Party here in the U.S. ;>)

Of course, I'm not suggesting that anyone burn 100LL in their daily commuter, asides from ruining your catalytic converter and dumping more lead into the environment, you can face fines up to $10,000.00 which would quickly eat up any savings...even at European fuel prices!
I did fill up my 1942 GPW once with Avgas when I ran out at an event at the Delta Air Park in B.C. She purred like a kitten all the way home that day.

Derek.

Derek,,
Back in my old Flat head Ford stock car days we ran Av gas 130..which had a higher lead content than todays AV LL1oo..
The octane remains the same a minimum of 99..but the power was certainly there..
Aviation Gasoline 100LL, which is dyed blue for easy identification, the product replaces Aviation Gasoline 100/130. Except for the content of lead (tetraethyl lead), all specifications for both products are the same. AvGas 100/130 (which has been dyed green) can have up to 1.28 grams per liter. AvGas 100LL is limited to 0.56 grams per liter, "LL" meaning "low lead". (Although this level of lead is only half that of AvGas 100/130, it is still twice the lead content of leaded gasoline automobile allowed in the 1980s.) PetroValue AvGas 100LL meets the specifications of CAN / CGSB ASTM D910 3.25.

Was running at $1.30/liter up till July this year but haven't checked lately..Regular this morning in Ottawa is running $1.16/liter..
I would imagine AV gas is close to two bucks a liter here now..
Happy New Year

[elvis3006]

to everyone thank you for this info,and experiences regarding ethanol. i also like to take this moment and wish all a Happy New Year!!

[lynx42]

Originally Posted by Ron Pier

Cor blimey! you Muricans. Blokes are still festering in the dungeons in the Tower of London for putting red diesel in their trucks to save a few bob! Ron

Happy New Year All!!

Ron, we hired a motor home in England last year and were pulled up twice to have the contents of the fuel tank checked for RED DIESEL. The first time I didn't know what they were talking about. So it seems that it is a common(?) practice in the UK to run on farmers fuel.

Regards Rick.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by lynx42

Happy New Year All!!

Ron, we hired a motor home in England last year and were pulled up twice to have the contents of the fuel tank checked for RED DIESEL. The first time I didn't know what they were talking about. So it seems that it is a common(?) practice in the UK to run on farmers fuel.

Regards Rick.

Hi Rick,

The Excise men must have thought you were suspicious........I've never been checked !

Happy New Year to you and Jill.

regards, Richard

[Bob Carriere]

Ssshhhttttt !!!!

It occurs in Canada once in a while to run the Ford diesel on red..... seems to like the brew..... at elast $10 cheaper per refill.....

A. NoKneemuss

[charlie fitton]

I think avgas is considerably more expensive her in Ontario...