Dog house insulation....

[Bob Carriere]

Looking for suggestions or tips on how to re-insulate the engine cover of my Cab 11.

I have finally pulled most of the engine cover only to discover that little mousy have carried away almost all the asbestos insulation.... that was stapled inside the cover.... my they all die of lung cancer!!!!

As any of you gone through this process..... what is available outthere..... asbestos is out of the question...... I have seen some sound/heat insulation material used by hot rodders.... has a very shiny aluminum finish and would look out of place even if very effective. I have even considered visiting to the local junk yard to salvage the under hood fiberglass underhood insulation to cut up to fit.... but what do I use to hold it in place.... glue....must withstand the heat.... and I will never find a stapler that will work through steel.

There is a ceramic cloth used in the private industry that will withstand 1000 degrees Celsius used in the glass industry to handle/form glass windows for the automotive market. That material could be cut and stiched into pads of appropriate size.

I assume, since I never had my truck running, that it would be unwise to drive the truck without some insulation both from the noise aspect but also the heat generated by the exhaust manifold would be unbearable on a Summer day.

Any help would be appreciated.

[chris vickery]

Bob, I restored a 12cab Ford CMP w/ similar style doghouse. While you don't neccessarily have to insulate it, take it from a guy who put plenty of hot summer miles on his, it's definitely worthwhile doing as your left leg starts to slow-roast. I investigated several options incl using the shiny hot-rod stuff. As agreed, it looks like crap and isn't really meant for the application. The heat is simply too intense in a small area. I would suggest a fiberglas product like a duct wrap used in furnace applications. When I worked in the sheet metal business we used to attach to ductwork using an adhesive meant for the purpose and a nail/washer device to attach it. The were two types of nails, one with an adhesive back you pressed in place, put glue down and insulation. Nail stuck through and you pushed a washer on, cut off excess wire. The other type was actually spot welded in place using a stud welding machine, same sort of application process. Hope this helps.

[Keith Orpin]

Hi Bob,
Faced the same problem with my 13 cab engine covers,the method I adopted was to use self tapping screws with washers to hold the insulation material in place. Over here in the UK bulders merchants stock 8' x 4' sheets ( approx 1/2" thick) of an insulation/heatproof material which is used when fitting back boilers etc in houses ( I think it's trade name is Velux). It looks like asbestos, i.e. off white in colour, but does'nt have all the nasties associated with it. To secure it in place, I left all of the original staples in place, but folded over the ends in the engine cover/bay. I then cut the panels out and secured them on the inside of the engine cover and bay using self tapping screws fitted with washers (approx 6mm washers). If you do them up fairly tight they push into the boarding, so that the heads are flush. The screws extended though the original steelwork by approx 1/2", all you do is then grind them off flush. By spending some time at this you can achive an acceptable result, as externally you have preserved the original staples, and internally you only see the odd screw head.
Hope this helps
Keith

[Phil Waterman]

I've used a combination of the methods mentioned but with a couple of differences. Used some of the panel material from boilers that was the replacement for asbestos but to attach it I taped it place and drilled through all the little holes from the staples then used tie wire of the size of the staples to loop through each staple pair of holes and twist on the engine side.

The big issue with both noise and heat is making the cover as fit as tight as possible and as air tight as possible. Foam gasket material is what I used. On my C60S which spends more of its time running at or near full throttle noise was a major problem made up a canvas engine cover that has sheet foam rubber underneath added a couple of snaps to hold it in place. This made a huge difference in both noise and heat in the cab.

Worked great until I tried to wash it, it shrank and now is not long enough on the rear of the doghouse.

Be sure to check the maximum temperature of what ever padding as the exhaust pipe scorch some of the material on the passengers side and I had to added a metal heat shield.

[Bob Carriere]

Hi Phil

Any progress on stitching the 216 from the Cab 12????

May have a 216 core engine for you are if interested...condition unknown....... but complete.

Thanks everyone on the dog house insulation... and the necessity thereof....... will do some research on availability of product and keep you posted.

[Phil Waterman]

I have not welded the crack in the 216 Chev yet, been practicing on other old cast iron blocks that are really scrap. Found that I need to practice a good bit to get so that I can weld something new and do a really good job.

Friend of mine down here just picked up "good running" 216 ? for me the funny thing is that he can not find the casting number in any of his Chev engine identification sources.

Will be in touch soon about about parts for the Pattern 12. Are you still considering coming down to Weare the end of July?

[Bob Carriere]

Hi Phil

Yep!!!! plans are to be down there ... am I right in saying July 25,26,27...??? may go down early and get my toes wet along the coast....and take in some lobster in Booths Bay right on the wharf!!!!

Glad you found a good 216.... what was it in originally????

Keep me posted if you need anything I can help you with for the Cab 12.

Be nice to yourself....

[Snowtractor]

Asbestos in powdered form is only harmful if inhailed. It is still used alot but processed differently or with added handling instructions and cautions.
However, I believe you can still get asbestos fire blankets that would do the trick, or the fire blanket replacement for it. ALso they make a stud welder attachment that can spot weld a stud, or spike to metal just as slick as s@#T. Then if you use the spike you pierce the material and use a metal push on clip to retain it. They used to use that kind of fastener in heating ducts to hold the insulation in place internally. I imagine they still do. So hit a fire prevention supply store and a sheetmetal shop that does duct work. Hope this helps
Sean

[Bob Carriere]

Thanks Sean

Love the idea of spot welding or tacking the studs in place to hold the blanket.

During a long discussion at the recent CMP rally North of Toronto something similar was suggested..... using a fireproof welders blanket.... that apparently can withstand direct heat from a torch in a passing motion. Apparently some can be obtained used ... cheaper.... and would allow to cut it up to fit the dog house pattern. With the very close space inside the engine cover on the Chev Cab 11... the exhaust manifold must be no more than approx. 6 inches from the sheet metal.... whatever I use has to be flame and fire resistant.

Previous experience driving Dodge M37 have shown that the floor area over the muffler can become unbearably hot and that area is exposed to air flow.

I will follow up on your suggestion and talk some more with Alex Blair who suggested getting used welder's blankets.

I will also make sure the small air vents are functional and that I have the long screen door hooks in place to drive with the doors propted open.

Will keep you posted of my research.

[Snowtractor]

...is another option. The fasteners for lining ventilation ducting should do the trick. To see one of the stud welding units they are very common at mufflers shops to weld on studs on exhaust manifolds after you snap them off trying to remove the old rusted P.O.S. studs. Of course a welding supplier would know of them too.
Sean

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

I understand a thick paste of Vegemite works wonders, although rumour has it that it can be more toxic than asbestos...

[Bob Carriere]

Pardon my ignorance ...... but what is Vegemite??

Sounds like some vegetarian concoction that no CMPer male would touch.... being we are all steak and potato kind of guys..... may be the mad cow thing explains our strange behaviour and compulsory behaviour when in sight of a CMP vehicle......

So please educate me on Vegemite .... were does it bolt on my truck....

Bored and waiting for the weekend to start..

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

See this thread... http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/sh...=&threadid=645

[Snowtractor]

INSULATION FASTENER
When liner is placed inside air conditioning or heating duct work, the movement of air could cause the insulation to delaminate. To prevent this, SMACNA Specifications call for the use of fasteners in addition to adhesive to secure the liner.

The fasteners may be of three types:

WELD This fastener forms a permanent bond to the duct work by becoming part of it as in any weld. Two styles are currently in use. The first fastener is a mechanical fastener which is driven through the liner and welded to the duct work underneath. The second fastener is a pin which is welded to the duct work prior to the insulation. The liner is then impaled (much like the adhesive fastener) over the pin and secured by a washer.

MECHANICAL This type of fastener mechanically attaches itself to the duct work. The most popular is a hardened nail with an attached washer. This fastener is impact driven through the liner and forms a positive mechanical grip with the metal.

ADHESIVE This fastener is bonded to the ductwork with an appropriate adhesive and allowed to set up. After sufficient drying time the liner is impaled on the pin and a washer added to retain the liner.

Please click on one of the graphics below for more information.

http://www.durodynecanada.ca/canada/..._fast_menu.htm

[Snowtractor]

Hope this helps, looking at the system is is really simple.

DURO DYNE PINSPOTTERS
LF-1000 / LF-2000 Hand Held Pinspotter



See Parts Listing for LF
The LF-1000 and LF-2000 Pinspotter are portable units that weld 14 Gauge PN style pins up to 22 Gauge. Insert PN Pin into the TP-2 magnetic tip and depress trigger. A timed burst of electricity fuses the pin to the steel. Can also weld LN style pins up to 2-1/2" with the use of TPL-2 Tip purchased separately. Available in 110V & 220V, 50 to 60hz; fuse for 15 amps.

http://www.durodynecanada.ca/canada/...inspotters.htm

[Bob Carriere]

Welding fasteners or wiring by hand using the existing hole of the staples ..... either way it should look good and be relatively easy while the dog house is all dis-assembled.

BUT... I still have not figured what substanc eto use..... welding blanckets.... at least what I have seen at the BOC shop is over $10 dollars a foot.... made of a silica spun and wooven fiber.. heaviest weave at 60 oz is even more expensive and only about 1/8 of an inch thick. The remainng asbestos padding I have is approx. 3/16 and I would like to match it for not only heat protection but also sound deadening..... the possibility of obtaining a used welders blanket and doubling up the thickness is one option.... with the materail cut to size of the various panels they would have to be stiched at a shoe makers shop to prevent fraying as the weave is quite large and loose.

Next stop will be furnace/boiler insulation shops to see what is readily available.

Still open to suggestions.

...and I will NOT use Vegemite......

[Snowtractor]

wool fire blanket at http://www.first-aid-product.com/ind...t-and-case.htm

racing products at http://www.racecarsupply.com/html/aluminized.html



and more at http://www.racecarsupply.com/html/thermotec.html their cool it mat is especially for firewalls and underhood or floor to reduce heat transmission

[Bob Carriere]

Well all things being considered the Thermotec semi rigid panels... about 5/16 thick....offering both hi-heat and sounds deadening qualities seem to be the best substitute..... the aluminum side maybe a bit more shiniy than I would like but in time will probably get dirty anyways.

Need to find Canadian distributor or Us source for a realistic price quote. Panels are about 24x40 inchesd and can be easily cut.... the main component is a glass like insulation barrier.

Will keep you posted on the cost and availability.

Thanks for the lead.