Will I make it? Jeep project!

[Lars R.]

Hi guys!

...after being involved with G503 Jeeps for over 30 years, I managed to get my hands on one I was always dreaming of! A CDLV 241! (Details of which please find in signature). It was found in BC and does not feature the ETO conversions installed at CMD. Despite cautiously sanding down 4 layers of paint, I have been unable to find traces of markings or a DND number. But it looks like it was sanded down before when the other layers of paint were applied previously.

Unfortunately the engine as stamped on the plate is not in it anymore, however, it has a Canadaian DND replacement engine installed in July 1945. It is an engine 116xxx predating the manufacturing date of the Jeep by a fortnight or so. I believe this could be an engine which might have been delivered to Canada in a spares package included in the 241/242 contract, but that I could not confirm yet.

It is not a complete basket case, but I have a mountain to climb! It seems fairly complete and I am missing only a hand full of original parts. (Solid rims, early speedo, a decent black Sheller steering wheel). Most of the missing parts in the pictures I have sourced in the menatime. Greatest find was an original WILLYS imprinted back panel to replace the cut out rear.

Biggest challange is a fracture in the frame. Sheetmetal body work is managable.

It has some strange modifications. On these I might post later.

I hope to have it roadworthy by it's 80th birthday on 16 Feb next year. We will see!







...still some original OD under the hood!

[Lars R.]

In interesting modification involves the rear seat (the one in picture did not come with the Jeep). It was moved in the position of the passenger seat, using the bracket from the rear and a stopper for the back.

[Lars R.]

It also had the spare wheel carrier moved to the passenger side. There is no other paint then OD under the traces of the installation. Civi paint (yellow and red) must have come after this was done.

[Lars R.]

These brackets on the rear corners of the body are a mystery. They are well made and have OD paint on them. They use the original EC and TR20 marked bolts as well as the hooks for the rear seat...(also see pic in first post). Should anyone have an idea for what they might have been, please speak up. They do not seem to match any known ambulance set up. It might be important to note in this respect, that the tops of the inner fenders look perfect, no dents, as if protected by someting for a long time. Tool box covers look great also, with good hinges and still working locks. Inside of tool boxes with original OD, no dents or scratches. Rests for rear seet removed, additional bolt holes on inside of fenders. The side handles were moved back and up. All holes for top bow brackets ar removed handles welded shut. Same with stud holes for half doors or ax / shovel brackets and footman loops, fire extinguisher. It has the Canadian Mod for antirattle of the hood at the rear, but using the windscreen catches, not the CMP ones.

[David Dunlop]

Modified for stretchers perhaps?

David

[Lars R.]

David, that was also my first thought. But it does not match the known ambulance mods. I have the notion this would have been a Canadian based Jeep, so, would they have modded it into a frontline ambulance? Hmm?

My intention is to restore it to the "delivery" config. But I will take care that no measurements for the "changes" are lost and keep the brackets in store. I will also keep the rearseat mods at the passenger seat.

[Lars R.]

It also had a rare original WILLYS water heater installed under the dash. These would have been also available post war. But that makes only sense if it had a full enclosure, maybe even a hard top. I will keep that as well!

The installation did, however, not follow the suggested standard set up!

[David Dunlop]

Is there any sign of the yellow paint between the Green and Red, Lars, or just on the wheel rims?

The reason I ask is that during the war, RCAF jeeps were the same green as the army ones. IF, it was an RCAF jeep, and IF it was in use on the field a lot, they were often painted yellow to make them easy to see by pilots landing aircraft.

Here in Canada, during the war, there were many Flight Training Bases across Canada. Many of these had Emergency Landing Fields built nearby: a small triangle of runways with a parking pad and single hanger at one apex. I know nothing of their staffing, but as an emergency field they may have had rudimentary emergency vehicles. In the 1980's a small civilian airfield north of Winnipeg, at St Andrews had a 'Fire Fighting Jeep' on hand they had inherited from a closed RCAF Station. It had a heavy duty overhead rack supporting several sections of wooden ladder and the rear cargo area had been modified to hold a number of very large, portable fire extinguishers.

That could be another possibility for the history of your jeep. Or not.


Have fun with the project.

David

[Lars R.]

Interesting theory David! Sounds plausible! It could explain the Red also. Would be great to have a picture...
It might also explain, why there is no yellow / red under the hood or not much of it on the inside / underside...

My wife's Granddad trained in Canada as a RAF Navigator!

I have light green primer, original OD, darker OD, Yellow and Red (all over body). The wheels are more like rusty white, with 3 post war and one later war combat rim. No clue how the blue in the rear adds up...it is only in areas were pictured. Windscreen and dash and some of the front end inside is Black.

[Lars R.]

Hmm, a shame there is no view from the rear...and not RCAF...but


https://d3at0mnwuyeh75.cloudfront.ne...hter/img-1.jpg

12.1.1943
Canadian Army Photo

The first two of an estimated fifteen jeeps to be converted into miniature fire engines recently rolled out of the Canadian Mechanical Transport Shop at Ottawa. They will be used in coastal areas.

The converted jeeps will join a fleet of heavier fire reels now in use at Canadian training centers. They are expected to be particularly valuable in mountainous and wooded areas.

[chris vickery]

Your fractured frame is concerning. Something to take great care to inspect once it is all torn down. Originality is great but a replacement frame might be a reality depending on how bad your original is.

[maple_leaf_eh]

I'm feeling excited for you, and at the same time sorry for you. That looks like a great project! But, you've fallen deeply into the hole that is research and restoring old vehicles. Some of us here would say the only cure is to buy more and more vehicles!

Lars, I'm a bit confused. The Jeep came from British Columbia; that's a really long way from Germany which is the address you have on your signature.

[Lars R.]

Hey Chris & Terry,

the Frame should be O.K., it is fractured were many Jeep frames brake, especially if used as a snow plough. It is were the tube meets the side rail and it has full thickness, no rust, so, it has been repaird on other Jeeps before and should work.

That Jeep has had a long journey indeed, all they way through Canada back East, then to the US to be shipped accross the Atlantic and via 4 European countries till it finally turned up at my doorstep, but it found a good home I hope. It took over a Year though. In anticipation, I could collect many missing parts in those 12 months!

If it would have been a story about "just a Jeep", it probably would not have happened. We are spoilt rotten with mechanically very sound G503s in Europe, with many only having been sold off by Armies in the 1980s/90s and mostly well maintained! I think the Italians were the last to let some go in the early 2000s, from a Railway Engineers Battallion. But, most of these are complete salads having been rebuilt not only once, but some even three times! I have a Frence cast block (not Hotchkiss!!!), which was casted in 1989 for the French Army and assembled by them with WWII internals to a running engine in 1990!

So, if you want a fairly original 241 / 242 one, you need to look elsewhere and go the extra mile...and be prepared to take on a Challenge!

[Eric B]

Hello

It is not a standard military fire jeep, These brackets were not on the military modification, nor is it a stretcher jeep.

If they are original they create an interesting oddity... and puzzle.

I have not seen any CDN MB's painted yellow. There were some red for fire service. We did not have "Follow me vehicles" like the USA that I am aware of.

It is nothing that i have seen or have in my files. It could be a one of... but what?

Thanks
Eric

[Lars R.]

Lars is Lurchi!

Eric, I am puzzled too. It does not correspond with any stretcher versions I have seen. The airstrip Jeep / Fire Jeep seems a plausible (but unconfirmed) theory.

Looking at fire Jeeps, much seems consistent with what we have here. Although, it might have been a progressive evolution from plain to yellow "help" vehicle to fire truck later. It is all speculation and I do not claim anything.

What strikes me though, is the fact that the inner fenders and tool boxes are near to new, as if protected by a structure over a period of time. The rear brackets look well made and use the genuine TR 20 bolts and rear seat hooks and the modifications show some OD paint...either under it or even on it. Hence, my assumption, this happened early, if not even in Army (CAF) service. Strange, that all unused holes (Fire extinguischer, handles, side reflectors, top bow brackets, half doors. etc) were welded shut and show OD over the welding!. The cut out rear panel shows no trace of a hinge and was very neatly cut.

I simply don't know...

[Lars R.]

I was so lucky to get hold of this original back panel!

A friend of mine restoring a Slat thought it was not good enough for his and cut it out...

It needs some TLC, but I am happy with it!

[Lars R.]

I spent all day int he workshop today. Most of the time clearing up and making space...an then I though about the best way to get this Bubba bumper off without causing too much damage. I think I know how...in small steps. The good thing is, the original frame horns / bumper gussets are still there and possibly can be saved!

[Lars R.]

Need some advice: I have not detached the air deflecors from fenders yet. I fear the round haeded bolts will suffer, if not break. Alternative: restore fenders with them still attached and later blast them togeather and prime / paint them as a "unit", any thoughts?

[Mike K]

Hi Lars

I would definately remove the deflectors. Is there something special about the deflector fasteners ? Round head screws are available, you might have to search for the correct SAE thread type but I doubt that anyone will notice.

[David Dunlop]

Hi Lars.

Is it my imagination, or do I see another pair of 'tubular sockets' welded to the inside front frame rails, just ahead of the grill assembly?

David

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Lars R.

Need some advice: I have not detached the air deflecors from fenders yet. I fear the round haeded bolts will suffer, if not break. Alternative: restore fenders with them still attached and later blast them togeather and prime / paint them as a "unit", any thoughts?

Original material is good. If I can save it it goes back on pitting and all.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Hello Lars,

Welcome on MLU Forum and congrats on the CDLV jeep project.

Will be followoing this thread as I am interested to see how you will restore this to orginal configuration.

PS: please read posting images for tips on how to attach photos to your posts. While suracezero is a dependable host, the links to your pictures will one day disappear, rendering your thread far less informative. Thanks in advance!

[Eric B]

Hello

By looking at what you have, it seems there was a structure over your jeep. It could have been attached to the tubes on your rear corners and the tubes on the front frame.

I have been looking at many period in use in Canada photos and so far nothing comes close.

Certainly unique. I personally would have kept all of the oddities on unless they looked like they were a non military configuration.

Sometimes it is the differences which make it easier to identify later.

Keep up the good work.

Thanks

[Lars R.]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

Hi Lars.

Is it my imagination, or do I see another pair of 'tubular sockets' welded to the inside front frame rails, just ahead of the grill assembly?

David

David & Eric, your eyes do not betray you. But comparing the front with the aft tubes, these seem to be well post military career and the welding was crudely done. Although nothing can be excluded, I beleive there is no connecting link in time or mechanics...no trace of OD, yellow or red on the front ones.

[Lars R.]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Hello Lars,
...Will be followoing this thread as I am interested to see how you will restore this to orginal configuration.

Thanks Hanno! Info on fotos noted.

...original configuration. I hope I will meet your expactations! For me, this is not just a Jeep, it is my little Canuck!

To my wife's frustration, I am notorious for keeping stuff not "needed". So, I cut out these parts from a Jeep I restored over 20 years ago, as I did not like the modification...now I know what it is and it deserves to go on the Canuck!

[Lars R.]

And, although using Jeep catches, not CMP ones, another mod to keep. (note the welded shut holes for the fire extinguisher and shovel brackets as well as the still present hole and grommet for the wiper wiring):





I have a Dyneto, but unfortunately only a 2 post one...

[Lars R.]

For Mike: THE CRACK!

...only provisionally tacked, not repaired. To me it looks like an impact damage, not fatigue. Since there is no other deformation on the rail, I think the steel structure (snow plough?) hit soemthing and lifted it up and it snapped. You will also notice the snapped and deformed slat grill. Although it is in the area of the shock absorber, I believe it can be safely repaired once cleaned as it is in the way of the tubular x-member. What do you think?

[Matthew P]

The CJ-2A civilian jeeps after WW2 had a top cover system that used vertical tubes in the rear corners to support the top bows. Maybe sometime your Jeep was fitted with something similar to make a CJ top for CJ like top support.


Matthew

[Mike K]

I notice the early 'pancake' air filter , which you can sell and then buy a house with the proceeds !

Welding should be OK but I am not the person to ask , my welding is crap.

[Lars R.]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

I notice the early 'pancake' air filter , which you can sell and then buy a house with the proceeds !

Crazy money indeed. I was happy that it was still on the Jeep! Not sure for how much originals are going for now if you can find one, but the new repro one from Darcy is priced at USD 625,00 plus shipping and duty when imported!