C15TA wireless install

[Tim Bell]

From my latest National Archive docs...



Another - note the shortened armour over the doors - to allow it to fit into the Hamilcar Glider.



One of the smaller Technical Drawings included in the document for interest - wiring diagram for radios and batteries.


Other drawings include:

Manufacturing plans for Aerial mounts, C5 switchboard mount, battery carriers, modifications to armour for glider use etc.

Tim

[Jordan Baker]

Found these recently. Figured they would be of interest to some members here.

[Jordan Baker]

the rest of them

[Joe C]

Jordan, what is the LAC reel/file reference for these? I couldn't make it out....

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Some more info from https://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/o...eel_t17894/923




Found the link to T-17894 in Colin Alford's thread here: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=33670

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Here's a photo of a C15TA radio truck which Barry shared in 2015: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...683#post216683

I have this photo of a C15TA with a Chore Horse on each front fender with the canvas.

[David Dunlop]

Hi Hanno.

That particular C15TA wireless installation is the Command Vehicle setup with a 19-Set HP installed along the left side facing the camera and the 52-Set along the right side with its back to the camera.

There was not enough time to get these vehicles into service in the field had they to wait for a factory designed Installation Kit so detailed drawings and instructions were created for use in the field, from which installation kits could be built from available supplies at the field workshops. If you wanted to go that route with your C15TA, it would be very doable.


David

[Barry Churcher]

Here is a photo of a C15TA with two 19 Sets mounted.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

That particular C15TA wireless installation is the Command Vehicle setup with a 19-Set HP installed along the left side facing the camera and the 52-Set along the right side with its back to the camera.

There was not enough time to get these vehicles into service in the field had they to wait for a factory designed Installation Kit so detailed drawings and instructions were created for use in the field, from which installation kits could be built from available supplies at the field workshops. If you wanted to go that route with your C15TA, it would be very doable.

Hi David,

Thanks for letting me know about this setup. I have not planned to go down this route as of yet, though my C15TA has that aerial side mount as shown in the photo above. Will do some more digging...

I see that André Gibault restored his C15TA kitted out with a No 19 radio set - see http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=19425

PS: just came across this posting in your humongous Wireless Set No. 52 Canadian - Project thread - more reading up to do!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Barry Churcher

Here is a photo of a C15TA with two 19 Sets mounted.

Hi Barry, thanks for this photo. I have not seen it before.

I take it you saw the photos of the Signals C15TA and the wireless installation info from the National Archives posted by Tim Bell ?

Originally Posted by Bruce Parker (RIP)

Interesting markings on this C5TA. The (presumed) white over blue sign is signals, and the 76 (in red) would be the number of the unit the signals section was attached to (that's how they did it. Signals units didn't get their own numbers until the specialized ones in corps or army). The yellow F2 on black is signals indicating the vehicle's use but I don't know what this one means. Even the white on the division flash on the soldier's arm would suggest 'RCCS'.

The 76 does give some clue as to the unit this truck was attached to. In an infantry division, 76 was assigned to a field ambulance unit so it's probably not that (but there is that stretcher under the truck...). 76 appears twice in an armoured division, once as an RCEME light aid detachment, which it could be, but also for the division's self propelled artillery regiment. That's where my money lies. I'm assuming it's in a division and not a corps or army looking at the somewhat obscured sign on the right rear.

So this would be a signals section attached to the 23rd Canadian Field Regt. (SP) if in the 4th Division or 8th Canadian Field Regt. (SP) if in the 5th.

Not sure what kind on generator set that is.

Photo says Holland, June 1945.

[David Dunlop]

Hello Hanno.

You are making this really interesting if your C15TA is equipped with that aerial base mounting bracket. Can the previous owner confirm if that bracket was on the vehicle when he purchased it, or traces of its existence were present that made him find one to reinstall? If either of these conditions can be confirmed, then your C15TA was absolutely equipped with a Wireless Set No. 52 Canadian, and the only way that could have happened was if it went to a Canadian Army Field Workshop to have all the installation pieces fabricated and installed. That particular bracket for the Aerial Base No. C2 is found in Drawing No. 1270 of the installation instructions.

There are a lot of Mods that would have been done inside and out to the C15TA to accommodate the installations of the 52-Set and 19-Set HP and the Installation Instructions can point you exactly where to look for traces of each Mod. If the former owner ran across a number of odd things that did not make sense when compared to the basic C15TA manuals for the vehicle, this might explain them.

It is also interesting that the Installation Instructions for the wireless setup related here are part of a bigger modification Instruction package for the C15TA. The other part of the package deals with mods to be done to the vehicle to allow it to be backed into the Hamilcar X Glider. Key Mods here would have been done to the upper outside corners of the windscreen to slightly change the profile of the vehicle to allow it to clear the curvature of the Hamilcar entrance. Wood block would be fitted in these corners when the C15TA was driven out of the Glider to permit proper fitting of the canvas thereafter.

I do not know if all C15TAs fitted for this wireless equipment also got the mods for the Hamilcar, or vice versa, but thought you should be aware in any event.


Cheers for now,


David

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Here's a photo of a C15TA radio truck which Barry shared in 2015: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...683#post216683

Interesting...

There's a modified base for the Canadian 34-ft telescopic mast fitted to the rear of the vehicle (possibly not a good idea for use with the WS52 as they were later replaced by a ceramic insulated version due to losses in the original ebonite), and an Aerial Base No.3 on the WS19 side (just visible over the top of the Junction, Remote Control, No.1 box to the left of the charging switchboard).

The two charging sets would be necessary as that's a very power-hungry installation!

Best regards,
Chris.

[Barry Churcher]

Hi Hanno
Yes thanks, I have seen those other threads. Here are a couple of photos showing two chore horses mounted on the rear wall in lieu of the POW cans.
I assume the two 19 sets would be, as Chris states, power hungry. These photos given to me by Brian Gough.
Barry

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Barry Churcher

Here are a couple of photos showing two chore horses mounted on the rear wall in lieu of the POW cans.
I assume the two 19 sets would be, as Chris states, power hungry. These photos given to me by Brian Gough.

Yet some more new (to me) photos. Thanks Barry & Brian!

A C15TA with a wireless setup is becoming alluring...

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

You are making this really interesting if your C15TA is equipped with that aerial base mounting bracket. Can the previous owner confirm if that bracket was on the vehicle when he purchased it, or traces of its existence were present that made him find one to reinstall? If either of these conditions can be confirmed, then your C15TA was absolutely equipped with a Wireless Set No. 52 Canadian, and the only way that could have happened was if it went to a Canadian Army Field Workshop to have all the installation pieces fabricated and installed. That particular bracket for the Aerial Base No. C2 is found in Drawing No. 1270 of the installation instructions.

There are a lot of Mods that would have been done inside and out to the C15TA to accommodate the installations of the 52-Set and 19-Set HP and the Installation Instructions can point you exactly where to look for traces of each Mod. If the former owner ran across a number of odd things that did not make sense when compared to the basic C15TA manuals for the vehicle, this might explain them.

It is also interesting that the Installation Instructions for the wireless setup related here are part of a bigger modification Instruction package for the C15TA. The other part of the package deals with mods to be done to the vehicle to allow it to be backed into the Hamilcar X Glider. Key Mods here would have been done to the upper outside corners of the windscreen to slightly change the profile of the vehicle to allow it to clear the curvature of the Hamilcar entrance. Wood block would be fitted in these corners when the C15TA was driven out of the Glider to permit proper fitting of the canvas thereafter.

I do not know if all C15TAs fitted for this wireless equipment also got the mods for the Hamilcar, or vice versa, but thought you should be aware in any event.

Hello David,

You are making very interesting points and I would be very much interested in checking those Installation Instructions to look for traces of each Mod.

I have made some photos of the antenna mount, and it is actually fitted in a different location. It is fitted more to the rear, over the centre of the rear wheels. The previous owner has passed away so I cannot ask him whether it was original or not. Harry restored it from a range wreck but preserved as much of the original parts and configuration as he could. So the antenna mount, or remains thereof may have still been there. Note the hole in the hull side plate to accommodate the antenna wire to be fed through.

This C15TA was never fitted with the side stowage bins. I've often wondered why that was. Now, if it was assembled to be used as a radio truck, there would be no need for stowage of the infantry's kit riding in the back, would there? Lots of stuff still to find out!

[Ed Storey]

Canadian use of the C15TA was essentially finished by mid-1945. Perhaps post-war Netherlands use of this vehicle type could explain the lack of stowage bins and the location of antenna mounts. Has anyone explored the post-war Netherlands military paperwork to perhaps reveal about the use of the C15TA with respect to modifications?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Ed Storey

Canadian use of the C15TA was essentially finished by mid-1945. Perhaps post-war Netherlands use of this vehicle type could explain the lack of stowage bins and the location of antenna mounts. Has anyone explored the post-war Netherlands military paperwork to perhaps reveal about the use of the C15TA with respect to modifications?

From what I understand there is hardly any post-war Netherlands military paperwork left. This subject certainly needs more research!

From "counting rivets" (researching photos and studying surviving examples), the C15TAs without bins appear in the Netherlands, the UK, Austria (IIRC this one came from the UK), Malaya and others. I'll make an overview of what I could find. It seems most of these were assembled post-war, but more importantly the hull sides were not drilled to fit the bins an different rear mud guards were fitted which indicates a factory modification rather than an field modification.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Originally Posted by Ed Storey

Perhaps post-war Netherlands use of this vehicle type could explain the lack of stowage bins and the location of antenna mounts.

Ed, Hanno and I have been discussing the lack of stowage bins for a while. I don't think it's a specific Dutch modification (which was indeed my first thought), as pictures of C15TA's without bins also appear in pictures taken in Malaya, Greece and Vietnam.
It's not just the lack of bins, also rear fenders in the same style as the fronts were fitted, which leads me to believe it's not just some modification done by RCEME or in the field, but more likely a series of C15TA's that was delivered from the factory like this. My thought is that they might have been intended as Ambulance vehicles, but now I can't remember why I came to this "conclusion"

The antenna mount; it seems it has been there for quite a while as it also shows rust pitting under the antenna mount.....if it's wartime or post-war Dutch who knows.

[Barry Churcher]

Aerial storage on rear below doors.

[Barry Churcher]

Why not have fenders, bins and a stylish entry step?

[David Dunlop]

Morning Hanno.

The C15TA Mods for the Hamilcar Glider are available in the document files from the following UK Website:

royalsignals.org.uk

They are filed under Document # 2070, in both the 19-Set and 52-Set listings of wartime radio equipment. The machinists drawings are of limited use, however. They were likely originally large format white prints that have been imaged down to standard letter sized paper format. On the bright side, however, the text and photos are excellent for showing the relevant vehicle mods.

A little voice in the back of my head says that the original file for this document might have been found in the Canadian Archives in the last couple of years. If so, it might be possible to get better quality printouts of the machinists drawings from the original source.


David

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Barry Churcher

Aerial storage on rear below doors.

The more you look at these sort of photos the more one sees. Like the aerial mount on the left of the hull.

Originally Posted by Barry Churcher

Why not have fenders, bins and a stylish entry step?

This is Preston Isaac's C15TA, one of the examples which did not have rear side bins originally. Preston added them when he did a quick restoration for filming “The Wall”.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

A little voice in the back of my head says that the original file for this document might have been found in the Canadian Archives in the last couple of years. If so, it might be possible to get better quality printouts of the machinists drawings from the original source.

Morning David, thanks for the reminder of where to find those files.

AFAIK these were originally found in the National Archives by Tim Bell - I have moved his posting from the thread Andre Gibeault's C15TA Restoration to the top of this thread to keep all related info in one thread.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Originally Posted by Barry Churcher

Why not have fenders, bins and a stylish entry step?

That's one serious step, Barry!

[Alex van de Wetering]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

This is Preston Isaac's C15TA, one of the examples which did not have rear side bins originally. Preston added them when he did a quick restoration for filming “The Wall”.

Those rear fenders do look different though.....not the "fancy" angled fenders like on yours, but more simplified. Oddly enough they look similar to the ones on the Ambulance C15TA (with dinosaur step) that Barry posted!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

Those rear fenders do look different though.....not the "fancy" angled fenders like on yours, but more simplified. Oddly enough they look similar to the ones on the Ambulance C15TA (with dinosaur step) that Barry posted!

That's because it is the one and the same - the mudguards were bashed in and are now (somewhat) restored.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

That's because it is the one and the same - the mudguards were bashed in and are now (somewhat) restored.

Attachment 138944

Yes......I knew that....

The black and white picture completely fooled me!
Still, the fenders look different.....like someone trimmed the sides.

[Barry Churcher]

Here is a better view of the two rear chore horses.
Barry

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Found a new photo of a WS19 in a C15TA operated by the Netherlands Military Police in 1949.

For some reason, this wireless is installed on the right of the vehicle.


Source: http://hdl.handle.net/10648/a8c4574c...8-003048976d84