Thoughts on Engine 1st quick test

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Guy

Your thoughts, and experiences, often on Youtube you see people firing up engines often for the "1st time" with no cooling system connected and no apparent water in the cooling jacket.

What are your thoughts?

I have my view on this but want to write something for our club newsletter want to give it a broader perspective.

Cheers Phil

[motto]

Years ago I was purchasing some MV parts from an old time dealer/wrecker/tow truck operator. He moved things around his extremely cluttered yard by means of two once mobile cranes, one toward each end of the yard. We were standing alongside one when he muttered something about seeing if it would go. Picking up a battery cable with nothing but a fuzzy end on it he dobbed it on the terminal of a nearby battery and the 4 cylinder Dorman diesel that powered the crane awoke from its slumber and settled into a steady idle. Looking at the engine in disbelief I noticed it wasn't connected to the radiator in any way. I pointed this out to the old gentleman and with a dismissive gesture he said, 'it'll run all day like that, been that way for years'.
I've played around with a few engines in my time and don't hesitate to run them for a short period with out coolant in the system. I don't believe I've done them any harm.
In regards to testing a rebuilt engine before installation, I would certainly run it for a longer period which does necessitate the use of coolant. I knew one backyard rebuilder who would hook a garden hose up to the engine he was running with a drain tube on the outlet to direct the water down an open gutter. Laying in the gutter was a thermometer. He adjusted the water flow to get the desired temperature.
I rebuilt a Dodge T245 6 cylinder side valve engine on one occasion and when I set it up on the stand and coupled up a radiator for an extended run there was water trickling out the side of the crank case. When we looked closely there was an 8 inch crack along the bottom of the water jacket. I hadn't crack tested the block which was a real oversight but it would have been worse if I had simply put the engine in the truck before giving it a proper run.

David

[Richard Farrant]

Hi Dave,
Your story about the old boy in the yard with the crane has reminded me of when I first started work, the company had an old David Brown Cropmaster tractor with a front end loader which was used for lifting machinery around the yard. At some point in time something heavy had swung into the bonnet and pushed the radiator into the fan. This machine ran without water for a long time before being replaced by a Fordson Major.

[Jacques Reed]

Hi Phil,

Just looking at some of my old literature from Speedway Motors regarding installing their aluminium heads on flathead Fords and they specifically instruct the reader to start engine without any coolant or anti freeze for the first time. They then say to allow it to warm up until you can still touch the heads with your bare hands then re-torque the head nuts.

He has decades of experience with flatties so would assume he knows his stuff.

If you google Speedy Bills Tech Tips 910-15310 I am sure you will find it, or go to Speedway Motors website.

Really the most important thing on starting a new rebuild is to pressurize the lubrication system before starting it for the first time.

Cheers

[Mike K]

this is a timely topic. I have the C8 radiator out and I have been fitting a Lucas C39 generator for a 12V system . I cannot justify a single 6V battery as all my other vehicles are 12v

Anyway I pulled the dissy out , wish I hadnt now. I stuffed around trying to re install it to the correct timing ........... anyway its back in I think . With a quick spin over on the starter motor, I could not get oil pressure on the gauge as I normally do , me thinks , the tang isn't engaging the oil pump drive slot . After numerous attempts .... I realised something else is wrong . I then drove the oil pump with a drill down the hole , still no oil pressure on the gauge . What the hell is going on .

I removed the oil line to the gauge on the side of the engine. I turned the oil pump over manually with a screwdriver down the hole..... a little burp and oil came out ... with finger over the outlet I can feel oil pressure . the pump is working OK

The thin oil pipe to the gauge , I removed the gauge end and blew down the pipe.... it was not completely blocked but came free after a while

Anyway back together, still no oil pressure ...... even after running for the engine with no radiator for 10 seconds

Then it dawned on me, with this very cold weather , the oil has increased viscosity . I checked the oil in the sump ,it looks rather thick and I think I put Morays in it years ago. I compared the flow rate of the sump oil with new 20/50 oil... dripping it off the dip stick New oil flows much easier than the treacle in the sump. Hopefully the gauge will work with fresh oil in the sump

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

....
Anyway back together, still no oil pressure ...... even after running for the engine with no radiator for 10 seconds

Then it dawned on me, with this very cold weather , the oil has increased viscosity . I checked the oil in the sump ,it looks rather thick and I think I put Morays in it years ago. I compared the flow rate of the sump oil with new 20/50 oil... dripping it off the dip stick New oil flows much easier than the treacle in the sump. Hopefully the gauge will work with fresh oil in the sump

On a working farm on the edge of the wilderness, I've seen bulldozers with an oil burner that slides under the main oil pan for cold starts. Start a fire, slide the pan under the cold-soaked block and start turning it over. When is so cold the oil is jelly, how much use is a radiator?

[harrygrey382]

I've run stuff a few times with no rad, I never run it hotter than when I can comfortably keep my hand on the head. Also wouldn't do it it at all with a wet sleeve diesel.

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

this is a timely topic. I have the C8 radiator out and I have been fitting a Lucas C39 generator for a 12V system . I cannot justify a single 6V battery as all my other vehicles are 12v

Anyway I pulled the dissy out , wish I hadnt now. I stuffed around trying to re install it to the correct timing ........... anyway its back in I think . With a quick spin over on the starter motor, I could not get oil pressure on the gauge as I normally do , me thinks , the tang isn't engaging the oil pump drive slot . After numerous attempts .... I realised something else is wrong . I then drove the oil pump with a drill down the hole , still no oil pressure on the gauge . What the hell is going on .

I removed the oil line to the gauge on the side of the engine. I turned the oil pump over manually with a screwdriver down the hole..... a little burp and oil came out ... with finger over the outlet I can feel oil pressure . the pump is working OK

The thin oil pipe to the gauge , I removed the gauge end and blew down the pipe.... it was not completely blocked but came free after a while

Anyway back together, still no oil pressure ...... even after running for the engine with no radiator for 10 seconds

Then it dawned on me, with this very cold weather , the oil has increased viscosity . I checked the oil in the sump ,it looks rather thick and I think I put Morays in it years ago. I compared the flow rate of the sump oil with new 20/50 oil... dripping it off the dip stick New oil flows much easier than the treacle in the sump. Hopefully the gauge will work with fresh oil in the sump

The 216 in my C15A, which is within rebuild specs has a very annoying issue at the moment. If it sits for a while (several months) it won't build up oil pressure - seems to lose its prime. Or maybe it would eventually but it takes too long for me. So I pull the dizzy out, whizz the oil pump over with a long slotted driver in a drill (and it gets good oil pressure fast then) then put the dizzy back on. Getting pretty quick at the whole process without losing time. You just have to line the oil pump slot up to where the dizzy will be when it's in time - which takes a bit of trial and error as the helical teeth rotate it a bit as you push it in.

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by harrygrey382

The 216 in my C15A, which is within rebuild specs has a very annoying issue at the moment. If it sits for a while (several months) it won't build up oil pressure - seems to lose its prime. Or maybe it would eventually but it takes too long for me. So I pull the dizzy out, whizz the oil pump over with a long slotted driver in a drill (and it gets good oil pressure fast then) then put the dizzy back on. Getting pretty quick at the whole process without losing time. You just have to line the oil pump slot up to where the dizzy will be when it's in time - which takes a bit of trial and error as the helical teeth rotate it a bit as you push it in.

Your problem may be caused by air in the pipe from the engine up to the gauge . You might try bleeding the pipe , unscrew the connection at the gauge , do not remove the pipe but leave it on the gauge. Run the engine til oil appears at the gauge end , then tighten up the connection .

During the time the engine is just sitting in your shed, oil may flow back down the pipe if a air leak is present at the gauge end .

[hrpearce]

Sometimes my gauge doesn't move till I tap the glass after I start the engine.