Photos needed. Shed full of S**t Auction

[Ian Fawbert]

Hi all,

Ive spoken to Howard, but he no longer has the photo's, so i thought it best to ask here.

Does anyone have any of the photos saved? In particular, i am interested in the ones which Howard and crew had labelled as 'Blitz Wynch', which as it later turned out to be was a Dawn #2 off the modification kit for the MB/GPW. http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5503, about 3/4 way down, Tony Smith ID'd it.



What would be even better was if anyone knew who bought said winch and bits as i would love to speak to them (not to buy it from them, merely for details). Howard had those buyer details but in a christmas cleanup a few weeks before my call they moved on to a bigger and better place!

Thanks in advance,
Ian.

[Tony Wheeler]

I can furnish info and pics of the winch itself as I have the exact same unit on a blitz, but of course I'm no help with the jeep related parts.

[Ian Fawbert]

Hi Tony,

Thanks very much for the offer mate! I have a Dawn #2 winch here also, but was more hoping to see an original one to be fitted to a jeep, with the hope hat the pics might have had some other details of the handle and mechanisms etc (which as you can see from the pic is a complicated little bugger!).

I have some info on these, but was hoping to see one 'in the flesh' or as close as those pics would be.

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Ian Fawbert

details of the handle and mechanisms etc (which as you can see from the pic is a complicated little bugger!)

Yes it's got me puzzled too Ian, it almost looks likes a power drive rather than a manual handle, but either way it still makes no sense to me. Hopefully one of the jeep guys here knows more and will chime in.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler

Yes it's got me puzzled too Ian, it almost looks likes a power drive rather than a manual handle, but either way it still makes no sense to me. Hopefully one of the jeep guys here knows more and will chime in.

Ian,
It looks like the short shaft at outer end of winding shaft, folds out and locks, so it is away from the body and a cranking handle with a flat bar slides in the end of it. Only power is one man!

regards, Richard

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Richard Farrant

a cranking handle with a flat bar slides in the end of it.

Thanks Richard, I finally get the idea now! I hadn't considered that slot in the outer boss, which is the correct size for the Dawn crank handle, and provides variable cranking radius by sliding through to the desired position according to cable load. That would be essential with this modification kit because the winch is fixed permanently in low ratio, so you'd need to shorten the handle to wind it rapidly, particularly when reeling in loose cable after winching.

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Presumably the folding shaft extension is designed to protect it from damage through tree strikes etc., and while the locking mechanism isn't quite clear to me there's obviously a retaining cage of some kind, possibly sprung, to keep it in both the locked and retracted positions. All in all a rather clever design and no doubt a very welcome piece of kit when bogged in a jeep with no CMP nearby to tow you out! Yes it would be a bit slower than a power winch but sure beats trying to push it out with spinning wheels covering you in mud!

BTW it turns out my own winch is a No.5 so I'm not sure what's on this jeep because it looks identical to me. Is there any major difference between the No.2 and No.5 ? As you can see it came with a home made short handle as well as the Dawn handle, and while the short one is much faster to use and a lot more ergonomic, it starts to become hard work for anything heavier than a ton so I switched to the Dawn handle. It's a pain in the neck to swing through such a wide arc but I need the extra leverage for lift towing.

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[Ian Fawbert]

Hi Mate,

It's a hand operated thing (must've been slow!!!) but I think the one in the photo is missing past of the handle as we see it in the photo. The details I have show the handle is meant to be 'locked' in to that bracket next to the ARN on the mudguard when not in use.

It'd be great to find someone with a jeep still on it- got close last year ahem I saw a jeep on display, but it was a much smaller Dawn winch fitted, not the official mod. My guess though is that like most things the aussie army did to jeeps, restorers have undone them thinking that it was cocky mod or that their jeep must be a US army one and ignoring its true history!

Dawn is still in business, I must contact them and see what they know!

Thanks Tony,
Ian.

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Ian Fawbert

What would be even better was if anyone knew who bought said winch and bits as i would love to speak to them (not to buy it from them, merely for details).
Thanks in advance,
Ian.

I have found the pics on my old computer of the winch I sold in 2005. Fess up, Ian was it you or Brett it went to? In 2005, I don't think it was this incarnation of MLU, it may have been the old Network54 version, which would explain why I can't find the old thread which had a wealth of info on the Aust Jeep fitment.

As you can see, it had the operating shaft extended (crudely) to a point similar to the Jeep pics, but still used the original drive gear.

[Brett Nicholls]

Hi Guy's,

Lynn - I think the terms "Fixed Or Repaired Daily" come to mind but I have to be honest - Hi everyone. My Name is Brett and I own a Ford.. Lol but yes I admit I have never seen a Ford front cross member cracked from wear and tear.

Mike - On a serious note you mention the proto types had the Winch sitting forward Hence the spacers on the front bumper and on the Later installations the Bar sat back hence the removal of one of the Jeeps bars from the Grille. Note the second AWM photo, which I posted, and that particular Jeep has neither the bar removed or the spacers on the front bar. Strange - maybe another slight change to installation?.

Tony Smith - I admit....it was Ian all along - I then got Jealous and had to buy my own from the Dubbo Museum auction

Regards,
Brett.

[Mike Cecil]

Not sure the bar is complete: depends where it is cut. I gather only the lower half of the bar got in the way.

You'll also note that the production vehicle has the winch mounted more towards the centre, hence the long winding arm with a bearing mount.

The image of the one sold at auction has a very stout looking winding axle/arm: much thicker then the ones shown on the period images. Is it genuine or a later addition?

Mike C

[Ian Fawbert]

Hi all,

Thanks everyone for their info and thoughts. It is a very interesting part of the aussie jeeps history!

Re weight capability of the winch, in the photos supplied by Mike Kelly in the thread Tony Smith linked to (http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=19724) , on the winch Drum itself (as seen in the photo with the handle in the series of 3 Mike posted), the drum reads-
Dawn XXXXX (WINCH?) Australia (on the outer ring of text)
and
2 Ton All Steel (on the inner ring of text)

Tony Smith, yes it is me who has your winch now (sitting safely in the shed awaiting use!). Those pics you posted are of the winch I bought, but as can be seen in the pics of the modification kit and Tony Wheelers handle, the one from your/my winch has been very modified!- hence i was hoping to see some details of the one from Howards sale for more info on the handle!

Mike, thanks for the additional info on the kit. The MGO was the primary source, but coupled with a few other bibs and bobs i'd seen and people had told me. I often wonder how many jeeps got fitted also (hadnt seen any in the ledgers with this noted unlike other kit additions recorded for some vehicles) and wonder how many people thought the kit was a farmers mod or welded a bar back in their grill (from what i have gathered, it was the whole bar to be taken out). Can you shed any other light on areas i could follow or look in to find more info on this kit? Are the details for CD-E8745 available somewhere?


The pic above of the multi coloured winch is the one Tony Smith sold me a few years back- the extended winding arm/axle is a home done thing i believe. Im not sure (havent dug deep enough) if it is a ww2 winch with military paint on it as i havent checked back through the layers of paint, but it did match the details id seen of the army installed ones.

Cheers all,
Ian.

[Mike Cecil]

Ian,

I'm sorry to say you have all the info I have on that Contract Demand (CD) in this thread, as you'll see when Volume 1 of Lloyd White's new book on the MB comes out later this year (I wrote the Australian chapter). There wasn't enough solid info to warrant much more than a paragraph or two on the Dawn winch mod, plus some liberal quoting from the MGO Memorandum, and a single image (the 9th Div jeep coming ashore).

I have to wonder if the CD was the only one (especially given the difficulty with the supply of the specified cable) and therefore the total number of which kits provided to Army, given images (and survivors) are so rare. Being supplied as a field mod kit, they could have been fitted to any jeep at field workshop level, (or simply left on the shelf), hence I'm not at all surprised that there are no annotations in the registration ledgers.

Mike C