white scout car

[Russell Jaques]

hi all , did the the candians ever use the white scout car in normandy ? :

[Mark W. Tonner]

Truck, 15cwt, Armoured - M3A1, 15cwt, 4x4

Uses:

- armoured personnel carrier
- command vehicle
- ambulance

Used by:

- Motor Battalion of the Armd Bde of an Armd Div - ie: the Lake Superior Regiment (Motor) 4th Cdn Armd Bde, 4th Cdn Armd Div.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Also used by (at least) George Blackburn's 4th Field Regiment in the 2nd Canadian Infantry Division...

BTW, "82par", we prefer names here on the forum... would you be so kind as to give us yours?

Thanks,

Geoff

[Mark W. Tonner]

Also used by some of the rifle sections/assault troops of Cdn reconnaissance and armoured car regiments.

Cheers

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Wasn't Maj. Mahony of the Westies in scout cars when he won the VC at the Melfa River crossing in Italy? That would be just before they converted to infantry to form the 12th Bde, would it not?

http://www.chapter-one.com/vc/award.asp?vc=824

[Mark W. Tonner]

:

Geoff;

Heres one for you:

The history of LdSH says that Mahony's "A" Coy was "in their 15cwt armoured wheeled vehicles".

The Canadians in Italy says that Mahony's "A" Coy was "lorry-borne"., which usually means in TCV's.

Cheers

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
The history of LdSH says that Mahony's "A" Coy was "in their 15cwt armoured wheeled vehicles".

The Canadians in Italy says that Mahony's "A" Coy was "lorry-borne"., which usually means in TCV's.

The former would seem to indicate White Scout Cars... the latter would imply they had already converted to infantry, but as far as I know, that didn't happen until June/July... unfortunately the excellent "unofficial" Westies site is offline now, so I can't ask the people who would actually care enough to know...

Anyone here with connections to the Westies?

[Mark W. Tonner]

Geoff;

Heres two more references I found:

From Zuehlke's The Liri Valley: "The company's White scout cars"

and from Dancocks' The D-Day Dodgers: "Rolling up to the Melfa in their White scout cars (this was one of the few occasions in Italy that this motorized infantry unit was able to take these American-built armoured vehicles into action)"

Judging by what I've read this morning, I would say that Maj Mahony's coy was mounted on White Scout Cars going into the Melfa action.

Cheers

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
Also used by some of the rifle sections/assault troops of Cdn reconnaissance and armoured car regiments.

We also know for a fact (courtesy Blackburn) that ALL halftracks and White Scout Cars in the Canadian Army in Normandy were repossessed to carry troops in TOTALIZE, so indeed they were truly "combat cars". How many survived those two weeks is hard to say. When did the C15TA come into general issue? Might it have been just after this?

[Russell Jaques]

thanks for all help guys this is a great help , my names russell how do i edit my user name ?

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by 82par
thanks for all help guys this is a great help , my names russell how do i edit my user name ?

Ref registration, identities etc. We can change your username for you and would encourage you to be more open with us. Most of us here have been together on the internet for years now, and enjoy very "personal" online relationships in terms of this field of interest!

In addition, we've had some porno spammers try to spread their filth around here, so tend to look VERY closely at those who try to cloak their identities. If it gets any worse we will REQUIRE full disclosure in order to protect our current membership.

Thanks, Russell! You can email me back... you already received an email from me today in reply to your 1CACR request, did you not?

[Bill Alexander]

The Westminster history indicates that the companies at the Melfa were in White armoured cars. The actual action was on foot, as the crossing was not suitable for the Whites. The LdSH recce troop was across in turretless Honey's, under the command of Lt. Perkins. He received a DSO for this action, a very unusual award for a Lt. Some argue that he also should have been awarded the VC.

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by Bill Alexander
The LdSH recce troop was across in turretless Honey's, under the command of Lt. Perkins. He received a DSO for this action, a very unusual award for a Lt. Some argue that he also should have been awarded the VC.

Has anyone seen his original recommendation? The chances are he was "downgraded" because (a), he was still alive and (b), there was already one in the works for that action (Mahoney). The Brits were pretty stingy about those awards, especially after Monty had breezed through... :

Good thing it was a DSO and not an MC, at least. Is Perkins still with us?

[Mark W. Tonner]

Geoff;

Came across this:

Maj. John K. Mahoney, Westminster Regiment, receives from King George VI the Victoria Cross.

Cheers

[Mark W. Tonner]

Hi Guys;

Just a note, Capt. E.J. Perkins, DSO, was wounded on 31 May 1944 in action at 'TORRICE CROSS-ROADS'.

Picture of Lt. Perkins' recce troop moving up to the Melfa attached.

Cheers

[Mark W. Tonner]

Hi Guys;

Lt. E.J. Perkins:

Cheers

[Bill Alexander]

Several years ago there was a display of Perkins' medals and a diorama of the action at the Melfa in a small museum in Clarksburg (beside Thornbury, now called Blue Mountain I think). It described the Melfa action and his role. Perkins was the one who made the initial crossing and created the bridgehead, but it was Mahony who kept it open over a protracted period of intense fighting.
Both Perkins and Mahony were instrumental in the success, but Perkins was subordinate to Mahony. The role of Mahony over that night and in the early hours of the next day were the things that inspire men to go above and beyond the call. Perkins was a key part in the action. Perhaps in hind sight both should have been awarded the VC, but Perkins did not have the responsibility of Mahony, who was in command of the situation.

[Mark W. Tonner]

Hi Guys;

The below link is to an account by Lt. Perkins to the historical officer of 5 CAD regarding the Melfa Crossing action:

http://www.strathconas.ca/History/melfa_river.html

Cheers

[Russell Jaques]

hi guys what sort of markings would they of had on the wsc in normandy would they of used the american star . i am trying to get as much info as i can as i am working on a 1/6 scout car and i would like to fill it up with canadian infantry thanks russ

[Mark W. Tonner]

Russell; Regarding Mkgs on White Scout Cars,

If any markings, they would have carried the following:

- Arm of Service
- Formation Sign
- WD Number
- Sqn/Bty
- bridge classification

Regarding the Allied white star, if used, most were the plain white star on the vehicle sides, between the drivers/co-drivers doors and the rear wheel-wells, closer to the wheel-wells, than doors. On the engine hood, if used, plain white star or white encircled star. Have attached a picture of Whites' of the Lake Superior Regiment prior to Operation TOTALIZE. Its not a very good or clear picture, but if you look closely, you can make out the allied stars on some of the cars, note - some have them, others do not.

Hope this helps

Cheers

[Russell Jaques]

thanks mark this helps a lot, thanks for the pic I can just make it out, so it s up to me if I have the star on it or not and Operation TOTALIZE is going to be where its from . I 'll post some pics when I get it done
thanks again russ

[Mark W. Tonner]

Russ;

Looking forward to seeing the finished product.

Cheers