Canadian M151A2's ...... ??

[BCBlitz]

MLUpers

I am currious as to the whole deal on the MUTT's, like when did they all get disposed of ?, how many were on the roster vs disposed of ?, when they sold them did you get them cut and did you get the same 2 pieces back or was it mix and match ?

also how many really were scrapped vs how many were rebuilt ?, are they a worth anything today cut and repaired ? Im having trouble believeing that the DOT authorities like this idea

I know lotsa questions but have read a bit about them but figured Id ask here.

It sounds like a very few snuck past the torch but most were cut, anyone with any pics of there own or can fill in the blancs would be great, more currious than anything..... seems we talk alot about Jeeps and Willy's but the MUTT seems to be not so popular prolly due to the disposal process.

Thanks much

[rob love]

I bought a batch of 30 of them, so I could likely shed some light on the subject. There were 935 Nutts purchased by DND, and the bulk of them (about 900) still remained on the books. Despite the safety concerns with the Mutts, the fact that they were newer than the M38A1 fleet they seemed to survive pretty well. When the time came to get rid of the fleet, our reasons for destruction seemed to be a direct copy of the US. They claimed DOT's decision not to have them on the road as well as the fact that they did not meet EPA standards. I thought EPA was an American thing.

At the base I was at, we had one towed, complete with batteries and all, to the local crusher to see how well it would go. No problem, and the DND likely got it's $30 for salvage. However, nationally, a decision was made to sell the Mutts as salvage, with the bodies going to the crusher and their destruction witnessed by DND pers.

I bought my 30 for $110 each if I recall, and had to move them from Shilo to wherever I was going to do the work. The contract I had allowed me to remove anything that could be taken with hand tools, but no torches were to be used. Not sure the reasoning behind this. It may have been the intention of Ottawa that the vehicles did not leave the base, but Shilo insisted they leave. However, as I was moving the last couple, a very drunk veh tech MWO pulled me over on the highway stating that he had just been to a meeting in Ottawa and that none of the muts were supposed to leave the base. I politely told him that if the DND wanted to pay for their return they could. 30 is an easy number to say, but not an easy number to move. Anyway, that was the last I heard of that.

So I had 30 jeeps out in a field, almost all had full tanks of fuel, all had their batteries, lots of brand new spare tires, some even had their tool kits and locks on them. A couple even had their IKEES, but of course, no radios.

On completion of the stripping, the 30 bodies were picked up by a local tractor/trailer operator, and taken to mandak metals for scrap. The CADC guys went down to witness them being cubed and that was the end of that.

There were some larger lots of 250 or so, depending on the location. A few were sent to various museums, both regimental and the war museum. A few managed to escape uncut through trades by collectors, but these were on the QT. A few years later, when the parts were disposed of, there was the release of some new in the box bodies, which contributed to the resurrection of a few. I know many of the Alberta ones were torched clean through the middle and then later reassembled. The saskatchewan ones were torch cut into 5 pieces, there are still a few minor pieces at the guys place that cut them. There were also some bodies which had been scrapped due to accident damage sufficient enough to warrant PCC. Most of those had been cannibalized, but when the cut ups appeared, were perfect for rebuild.

I built up one MUTT that way. I had a body which only sufferred fender damage on one side. It was an easy rebuild, and as an early release, was rust free and in better shape, other than the fender, than any of the 30 I bought.

There are a few around, but since the majority of them got the axe, they are likely the rarest jeep in Canada.

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by BCBlitz

MLUpers

I am currious as to the whole deal on the MUTT's, like when did they all get disposed of ?, how many were on the roster vs disposed of ?, when they sold them did you get them cut and did you get the same 2 pieces back or was it mix and match ?

also how many really were scrapped vs how many were rebuilt ?, are they a worth anything today cut and repaired ? Im having trouble believeing that the DOT authorities like this idea

I know lotsa questions but have read a bit about them but figured Id ask here.

It sounds like a very few snuck past the torch but most were cut, anyone with any pics of there own or can fill in the blancs would be great, more currious than anything..... seems we talk alot about Jeeps and Willy's but the MUTT seems to be not so popular prolly due to the disposal process.

Thanks much

Hello,

I am by no means an expert on these compared to some others on here, but having owned two at one point, and currently rolling restoring the better of the two, so I have some incite.

All the records I have seen indicate that there were 935 M151A2s purchased back in 1974. Most of the "plain" 151s were disposed in 87/88, with some of the special equipment models like the TOW versions as late as 89/90. The very early and very late disposals seem to be the least likely to have been "demilled". Rob Love can better speak to the actual nuances of the process for "Demilling" as I think he scrapped 30 of them.

The disposal process with these was exactly why I wanted one. No offence to anyone else's choice of MV, but I wanted something I wasn't likely going to run into regularly, and conversly, due to the fact that 98% were scrapped in both the US and Canada, there is a huge stockpile of spare parts available for them. Nearly every part on it can still be purchased NOS. There is of course the whole bit about them not being a "Real Jeep", even though early A1s were built by Willys. I'm not going to dwell on that as the whole thing is really rediculous seeing as how little an M38A1 has in common with a GPW/MB, yet its still considered a "Real Jeep". Ironically, 99% of people I run into at Gas Stations and Tim Hortons think its either a WWII Jeep or an Iltis, and as mentioned in other funny posts, many also seem to think they know more about it than I do. When I tell them its a 74, more often than not, they roll their eyes in disbelief. Although, I did have one situation where a person actually correctly identified it and mentioned that he thought that "MUTTs" were illegal to register and drive on the road.

There are some Canadian 151s out there that are "Un-Cut", but these are extremely rare, and with rust being the biggest killer of 151s aside from the disposal process, i'd go out on a limb to say the numbers of Un-Cut original Canadian 151s are in the lower end of the double digits. To add to the scarcity, at least half of the "Un-Cut" 151s in Canada that I have seen are actually surplused US imports. Although the whole disposal process was dictated by the US, obviously through sheer numbers alone, more "Un-Cut" 151s survive in the US. The differences in MWOs and Mods over their lifespan make it very easy to differentiate between US and Cdn 151s.

Both of mine were "Demilled". One being an early "Saw Cut", ie, a single clean cut across the centre under the Seats. The other was a later "Saw Cut" that required a 1' strip cut out of the centre. From what I understand, this "strip" had to be returned to DND. In both cases, they match, so it wasn't a mix and match scenario. I've even heard that some ended up being crushed flat after being cut, but I can't verify that.

As far as value. Its all in the "eye of the beholder" like everything else I guess. Mine both cost around $2500ish each (in rough shape), although from a Rust standpoint, one was virtually Rust free by M151A2 standards. I have easily spent another couple of K on parts and shop consumables getting the nicer one roadworthy. Surely an "Un-Cut" version is going to fetch a significant amount more, but these are hardly a monetary investment regardless In my own case, getting a Canadian 151 that I could get the history/provenance on was priority number one. The fact that it is Cut is annoying, but i'd rather a Cut Canadian 151 than an "Un-Cut" US 151, but thats just my take.

As far as the whole issue of being Cut, versus the Motor Vehicle folks; i've seen far worse scrap repaired and put on the road. At least mine is virtually incapable of speeds over 60mph (suicide). For what its worth, it went through inspection just fine. It has been repaired correctly, and really isn't that noticable unless you're looking for a Cut line. Mine is registered as an AMC Jeep and not an M151A2.

I have a much longer post in this sub-forum detailing much of my efforts getting my M151A2 put back on the road.

Scotty B

[Scott Bentley]

Seems Rob and I were typing at the same time

Rob, its way past your bed time

Scotty

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Just out of curiosity, what are the differences between Canuckistani MUTTs and Murricun MUTTs? Idle curiosity only - I've only owned M-series jeeps as well as a CJ, two Canadian-made YJs and (presently) a TJ. I like the look of MUTTs though.

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball

Just out of curiosity, what are the differences between Canuckistani MUTTs and Murricun MUTTs? Idle curiosity only - I've only owned M-series jeeps as well as a CJ, two Canadian-made YJs and (presently) a TJ. I like the look of MUTTs though.

We have that in common. Although i've only ever owned one other MV besides an M151A2, I am/was a Jeep fanatic having owned at one time or another an example of nearly every SWB Jeep made after 1967. I sold my TJ shod with 40" Rubber and 1 Ton Ford Axles as I never had time to get it on the trails, and it was catching many stares from the Police

The differences between the US Army/US Air Force and Cdn M151A2s all stem from the Mods that were completed during service, as they all came off of the same assembly line in no particular order. The USMC M151A2 have some minor differences from the others consisting of a long Front Bumper with Lifting Tabs the lack of Lifting Tabs on the Wheel Hubs and most had Fording Kits.

The biggest external visual differences are:

Paint Scheme,
Grill Guard made from Expanded Metal,
Mirrors mounted on both Front Fenders,
Spare Tire/Antenna Base Bracket (has the Spare Tire mounted in reverse to US models),
CFR/Licence Plate Mounting Tabs welded to Left Bumperette and sometimes the Front Bumper, and
Some Antenna AMU were mounted directly to the Rear Top corners of the ROPS (US used Corner Mounts with extensions and Sugar Scoops).

More detailed differences are (depending on how stripped the M151A2 is, these will only be spotted by the holes left behind):

With the ROPS installed, the Weight and Dimension Plate is cut in Half and riveted to the Windshield Frame above the Passenger Grab Handle (US is most often riveted complete behind Passenger Grab Handle),
Ansul Fire Extinguisher mounted on Transmission Tunnel Cover (US is behind the Driver Seat on side of Wheelhouse),
Although both used the VRC-12 Comms Systems during that era, US and CDN mounting systems for the MT-1029 and Antenna AMU are completely different and CDN Comms installs used C2299 Boxes on Passenger side Wheelhouse, and L Shaped Brackets on the Front Corners of the Wheelhouses. The IKEE (Radio Power Supply) were bolted to these,
ROPS and Mounts/Feet are completely different, and when installed CDN did not use Top Bows, had 3 Point Seat Belts, and the US moved the Light Switch closer to the Steering Column,
CDN SMG Mount sometimes found on the Windshield Frame between the Defroster Louvres,
CDN Doors used non-folding Frames and had modified inside Handles to secure to the ROPS Cage rather than Top Rods,
Both the Upper and Lower Door Pin Mounting Tabs are different.
There is also the Decals.

This is by no means comprehensive. The actual lists of US and CDN MWOs will identify a few others, but these are the visual differences that can be picked out at a glance, even if its just the location of bolt holes.

Scotty

[BCBlitz]

Hi All

Thanks for the help ......... WOW just ask and thou shall recieve around here

Well sounds like if you were to have one guess you should enjoy it for what it is, a cut up refabbed piece of history to save and enjoy just like all the other MV out there, kinda funny how the CDN military does not want this kind of stuff in private hands, heck it took our ( taxpayers ) dollars to buy it all for crazy prices in the first place, guess its all about liability .

Im waiting to see how they are going to handle the disposal of the CDN Deuce truck here in the next few years after they get the new binders to replace them, would be a shame to not be able to aquire them should be an interesting read.

Thanks all .....