Canadian Morris-Commercial 6 x 4 exports?

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

A series of interesting photos have been shown to me from the Pearson's of Liverpool collection. They show a Morris-Commerical 6 x 4 truck being uncrated and assembled in Liverpool. The inference is that these were exported to Canada, crated, and then re-exported back again to the UK for assembly. This sounds so implausible to me ..and one suggestion was that they had been assembled in Canada and then exported to the UK! I can't envisage assembly, then knock-down and crating in Morris Commercial Cars Limited, Birmingham, and then delivery by road or rail to Liverpool but this makes more sense to me as perhaps a cancelled export order. Any thoughts please?

[Mike K]

hi David ,

I am not aware of MCC having any agencies or dealerships in Nth America , can somebody help here ?

I have seen pics of LHD Morris Commercials built for the continental market , but these are civilian vehicles of course .

MCC's main export market pre war was Australia / New Zealand and the other ex colonies or then dependancies like India ?

Canada had its own busy auto makers , so I guess MCC decided not to market there , too much competition .

The 6X4 CD range was purchased by the Indian army pre WW2 .
At least 8 CDSW's went to NZ as Artillery tractors around 1938 .
A couple of civilian 1920's CD's have been found here in Australia .

Mike

[cmp truck]

What is the date of the photo?
Before the CMP's came into production, Canadianized versions of the British War Office 4x2 and 6x4 were prototyped between 1937 and 1940.
In 1938 Ford and GM of Canada assembled 6x4 prototype gun tractors much along the lines of the CDSW.
The rear bogie was a Scammell swivelling gear case sent over from England.
They never went to production, being replaced by the 4x4 Quad.
See Wheels and Tracks number 25.
There is no indication that a CDSW was sent along with the Scammell bogie.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

The photo must be from at least 1940...it's very odd indeed. The Scammell bogies were supplied by Scammell Lorries Limited and shipped to Canada and then fitted to the Ford and Chevrolet chassis.

I still cannot understand why there was a crating up and uncrating in Liverpool of a M-C!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by David_Hayward
I still cannot understand why there was a crating up and uncrating in Liverpool of a M-C!

Sounds like an enigma, but here's a possibility: the Morris-Commercial 6x4 was crated for export, but before it was actually shipped out the British WD gave to order in June(?) 1940 to stop all exports because of the huge losses of vehicles in France. All crated vehicles were sent contractors to be uncrated and prepared for service at home.

What do you think of this scenario? Quite possible I think, as this is exactly what happened to fifty Vickers Light Tanks Model 1936, even though they were already paid for by the Netherlands East Indies government. The Vickers tanks, dubbed "Dutchmen", were retained in the UK and used for training. Only after lots of pressure from the NEI government they were compensated for the loss of their tanks with a number of South African Reconnaissance Car Mark III shipped directly from South Africa.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

I am sure that this is the likely scenario. They may have been crated up for export..to Canada?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by David_Hayward
They may have been crated up for export..to Canada?

Not likely, rather like Mike said: "Australia / New Zealand and the other ex colonies or then dependancies like India ?"

[Alex van de Wetering]

This maybe interesting:

http://bcoy1cpb.pacdat.net/Type_2_at...ikely_1939.jpg

Taken from Colin Stevens' site. A CMP prototype which lookes a lot like a Morris Commercial Bofors tractor.


Alex van de Wetering

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

That's the 1938 Ford BB18 I think based Ford-Scammell, rego 962 C, DND # 38-1-53 or -54, the Chevrolet being a Chevrolet-Scammell 963 C Model 1531 I think. It's all in my first CMP Book!!

[Alex van de Wetering]

David,

I am getting more and more interested in your books. You always come up with the most beautiful pictures which are a good help for a scale-modeler like me.
Can you allready tell me something about the ditsibution of your books...I mean will they be available here in the Netherlands also???

Alex van de Wetering

p.s. any plans on a CMP modeling book?

[cmp truck]

Alex and David,
The photo is of the Ford prototype, with the Ford/Marmon--Herrington prototype in the background, during a gun and limber towing demonstration. I also don't think the CDSW was coming to Canda. Since you indicated the photo was taken in 1940, and the Canadian prototypes were tested and demonstrated in 1938, why ship the CDSW to Canada in 1940?

[Keith Webb]

The Ford prototype used a Scammell rear axle assembly which they had to "engineer" to fit.
Sid Swallow tells the story in an early edition of Wheels and Tracks - don't recall which issue.

[cmp truck]

Keith,
Both the Chev and the Ford had a Scammell bogie. Scammell just sent two gear cases and the trunnions to Canada. See Wheels and Tracks No 25.

[Mike K]

As the CDSW is on this topic .

I recently had this pic emailed to me , a restored CDSW in England . Although fairly rare , a few have survived . The 4 ton power winch meant that a few were used in the logging industry after being sold off . The 6 cyl OH engine would only drag it along at pedestrian pace . This is the breakdown version , the other common type was the LAA bofors tractor .

The pic is courtesy of Richard Notton , MLU's own reporter in the UK . Notice the orange rotating pimple on the CDSW , this is to warn off other motorists . The CDSW's breakneck speed of 10MPH on the M1 motorway would frighten snails and turtles into submission . Its even slower than a CMP . As the New Yorker said "Bud, dats slow ".

Mike

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

The photo of the MCC coincided with a request from the publishers for any colour shots suitable for a front cover of restored EARLY CMPs please...I wish the truck in Aussie, to Contract S/M 2002 had been restored as that would be perfect for a 'then and now' pair of shots..I have a 1940 official photo of a C15 to Contract S/M 2002.

Ford or Chevrolet does not matter thanks! Acknowledgement will be given!

[Javier de Luelmo - Diesel]

Hello Mike:

I thought you may like to see this one, my 1/35th scale model of a CDSW. In these pics it is nearly finished, now I'm writing an article for a magazine. I've got nearly finished the historical part, please would you read it? Sure you can find any errors, and your advice will be welcome!

[Javier de Luelmo - Diesel]

I remade lots of things for better detail and scale appereance, but the only thing I have made with a bit of "intuition " are the pow carriers, I replaced them with bigger ones for jerrycans as I thought they were more up-to-date with the campaign (Sicily). Hope you like it!

[Alex van de Wetering]

Javier,

The CDSW looks great! Can you tell me a little more about the model? I am planning to scratch-build a 1/35 CDSW. Is your CDSW scratch-build or is it a "Lead Sled" or "Scale-Line" kit.

Alex van de Wetering

[Mike K]

Javier

Your CDSW model looks very authentic, I like the camo scheme . The dust looks real too ! . Is that a Autovac on the dash panel ? The Autovac is a black cylindrical device that bolted to the dash in front of the passenger .

You can email me your magazine article at :

vk3cz@hotmail.com

Wartime pics of the CDSW are rather scarce . I attach one here , not good quality . A few CDSW 's were used as art tractors before the quad was standardised .

Mike

[Javier de Luelmo - Diesel]

Hello Alex and Mike:

The model is the Lead Sled kit produced some years back. Is not bad, but needs attention to details and some crude metal parts remade. Your CMP wrecker is beatiful, Alex! I was thinking time ago making the arcticised 4x4 version, one of these years... I have lots of models still to make or finish! I built an LRDG F30, but have nearly dismantled it, I made the Breda cannon too and now it will surely go in the LRDG Chevy.

Mike, yes, I think it's an Autovac the can in front of the passenger. I found a pic in a magazine about the C9 Bofors, the original piece in the kit was a mess and decide to remake it. If I had found detailed pics before starting the kit I would have detailed far more, I really love the look of that little beast!

I enclose this pic (from the New Zealand Archives web? don't remember), maybe you know it, the only wrecker I have "in action":

[Tony Smith]

The site for the NZ national photo archives is:

http://timeframes1.natlib.govt.nz

There's plenty of great pics like this (Fern Leaf Up?):

[Tony Smith]

Hopefully it's here:

[Keith Webb]

A soldier of New Zealand Division Ammunition Coy rendering a truck useless before abandoning it to the enemy

DA-08193

Alexander Turnbull Library,
National Library of New Zealand

[Keith Webb]

DA-12752

Alexander Turnbull Library,
National Library of New Zealand

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

What type would that 4-wheel Wrecker be please?

[Keith Webb]

Hi David
That would be an early type Holmes wrecker mounted on a cab 12 chassis I think.
Wheels and tracks had an article on the subject, but I don't have it handy.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Javier,

Thanks for the compliments on the Ford F60H Wrecker. I continued the work this week. In the meantime I have fitted most of the wrecking equipment, including the wrecking booms. I hope to continue the work next week. But, I am very busy at my work, so......

Just like you (and probably all other modelers) I am working on several projects at once. To name some of them:

Ford F60 H Wrecker (conversion)
Dodge D15 (Roy models resin)
Sherman Vc Firefly with wading gear (dragon with details etc.)
Sherman ARV I (conversion)
Bedford OYD (Tonda vacu with several scratch parts)
Caterpillar Armoured dozer D6(Scale line resin)
Ford F15 cab 11 (scratch/conversion)
Morris Commercial PU (scratch)
etc. etc.

And several more plans for the future, including a large diorama of a French harbor 1944.

Alex van de Wetering, The Netherlands

[Mike K]

Pic of restored CDSW engine in the UK .

Mike

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

The Pearsons photos show various images of MCC CDSW that they handled. One identified was a crated new CDSW 'Lorry 30 cwt 6 x 4 Break Down' to Contract V.3957, which covered a host of other CDSWs. The crate has the WD Census Number L4551527 in the batch L 4551434 to 4551531. There are photos of the crate, crate with sides taken down and PKD truck inside, and then the assembled arcticle.

Now I reckon that the photos of the uncrating may be from as late as 1943-4. This raises a query as to why they were crated up, duly WD Censused, and then sent SUP in 1Z1 crates only to have them back again for re-assembly?! The only suggestionn that I came up with is that these were exported to say North Africa, were not required for Sicily and then sent back to England for D-Day. Not knowing about Contract V.3957 I cannot say when it was placed.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

I have been sent a scan of the Ford-Scammell GT (1938) which is featured in the photo above, possibly taken in 1940? Photo # Div0051. I am sorry but as a result of a PC crash I have not got the name of the sender. I should like to use it in a magazine and give credit/pay for its use. Please.